WPPR v5.8 sneak peek

General
41

Surely I can’t be the only one who reads ‘150% max’ and knows it to be mathematical nonsense?

When actually what is trying to be said is that 38 meaningful games is now 100%

Then by having further criteria which mean you can get 120%, 150%, 200% 225%, … 253.7%

Actually makes the whole system even more convoluted and likely to lead to an ‘arms race’ between organisers coming up with ‘clever’ workarounds, followed by the IFPA nerfing said workaround, and so on and so forth.

I’m a strong advocate, and long have been, for the IFPA to come up with a list of templates/formats for comps worth varying base WPPR pts (based on whatever criteria they choose).
Examples could be:

High score comp on a single machine - 1/2 pt
Flip Frenzy - 20 games average played - base 25pts
League - 6 meets, 5 games - no H2H finals - 20pts
League - 6 meets, 5 games - with H2H finals - 30pts
4 player seeded matchplay - 10 rounds - base 20pts
4 player unseeded matchplay - 10 rounds - base 15pts
Indisc - base 80 pts
etc.
etc.
There is theoretically no limit to the variations.

This will mean that they IFPA can steer organisers towards formats they feel are a more accurate judge of skill, by awarding more WPPR pts, and also ensuring that competitors and TDs know exactly how what the format of the comp is.
The submissions to the IFPA could also be tailored to the comp format initially selected.

If TDs want to run a different format - great, but it’s not going to get WPPR.

Once a year, new formats could be submitted for approval for the IFPAs blessing, or existing WPPR pts awarded to formats could be reviewed.

I’m already getting requests and questions about the (Annual) UK League and Pinfest comp - the 2 largest comps in the UK, asking what pts they’re going to be worth and how they can be worth more next year. With the distinct possibility that the League, with well over 250 competitors, where finalists will have played on average over 50 games will be nerfed down to virtually worthless, due to changes made after the league started in Nov 2021. (we’ve already changed the format of the comp to include H2H play, despite the league running prior to the IFPA had even been set up, but the general consensus among regional coordinators is that the latest change is too far away from the spirit and reasoning behind the comp to make changes.) The overwhelming majority of the UK players first initiation into competition pinball is via the UK league, they’ll earn less than .01 pts just for attending the minimum leagues meetings to qualify for submission, won’t add anything to the ‘rating value’ of the comp - BUT what it will do is give them a profile and potentially get them hooked, or at least interested enough to attend more comps and watch their pts grow. By removing or nerfing leagues it is closing the door on growing competition players - what I though was the whole point of the IFPA?

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42

You are correct, but the alternative was to make the tournaments that people are already running that count at (or close to) 100% value would drop in overall WPPR value while remaining the identical. So a monthly tournament that was worth 15 WPPRs this year might only end up being worth 10 WPPRs next year.

It may seem insignificant but I think from a psychological perspective the “inflation” approach the IFPA took feels a lot more like value added rather than value removed.

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43

The 150% refers to “150% of the old maximum” which is inelegant but meaningful.

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44

and it auto scales if the number or games / rounds is differnt?

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45

Now should that also ban some games?
How will games with less then 3 ball TGP fit?

46

No autoscaling - set pts for set templates
There can of course be different templates with the same formats but varying no.s of games played

Why would games be banned?
What specific machines have a less than 3 ball TGP?

Pingolf, and other formats would also have a set WPPR value per tournament- dependent on a 9hole or 18hole format

47

Beat the clock
Safecracker
Barnyard
Cannon lagoon
Golden cue (I think)
WOZ pindemption
Probably more.

48

Then there are the grey area games that you can win. Since no one has beat any of them in competition so far, I think the IFPA just looks the other way.

49

also have games that can kill you mid ball (without tilt or drain)

50

and things like Flip Frenzy with games average played should be ranges when like
10-15 games average played, 15-20 games average played, 20-25 games average played, ETC.

matchplay with round ranges.

High score comp ranges based on games.

Well Flip Frenzy may be hard to hit an fixed number of games average played

51

Do you have an example of what you are thinking. The rule does not mention drain or tilt as requirements for loss of ball, just being able to finish on ball 1.

Games where failing a mode causes flippers to disable and you drain should be fine.

Games like Speak Easy, where you can lose a ball, I am not sure.

The TGP will now include games played that are fewer than 3 balls, including timed formats where players are attempting to reach a score or objective as quickly as possible. Any game where it’s possible for the player to finish on the first ball in play, will be calculated at 33% value for TGP purposes.

52

that seems to cover event formats and not games (other then games with earned time play)
Now Capcom Kingpin (when in timed play) does not work the same as safe cracker with time parts.

and games with FIXED time play fall under formats. (think highest score in X time)
The few games with fixed time play as part of game rules seem to be for redemption mode and that may even be rigged to pay out %.

Now Games With Lock & Point Stealing
Need rules to cover the
Stealing parts
both points and balls
Loss of Ball In Play Not from Tilt or Drain (non Stealing)
as if you read the ifpa rules and don’t list game (software rules) then it looks like an comp ball (flippers died with ball in play)

Features Than Can End Game part should force TGP to 1 or just they just look like an looks like an comp ball (flippers died with ball in play) / game did let player play ball 2 / 3 (and may even look like an tilt through)

Other points stuff like
Loss of Points - Player can lose points
Copied Points - Player can add points of another player while not affecting the other player’s score
Stolen Points - Player can lose points and those points are given to another player
Gained Points While Not Playing - Player can be given points when it’s not their turn.
Games That Can Swap Player Scores
may need rules to cover say

Position already determined (maybe say in games like this no Position can be determined till the end)
walk offs / TD says you got it (in an event where they want you to stop at that point) and then the ball jumps into an hole and points are lost after say an auto timeout.

MAYBE have an rule saying 4 player groups on game played as one player one still count as an 4 player game.

53

I disagree. The first sentence if the major malfunction section covers it all.

A major malfunction is a gameplay problem with a machine that results in the premature loss of ball in play in a
fashion that is not a normal feature of the machine’s gameplay.

Games that disable the flippers as a normal feature of gameplay, be that WOZ crystal ball exploit prevention, or losing all your health on Sourcer’s Apprentice or going in a Gobble Hole on an EM. None of those are Major malfunctions.

Ball stealing, like Pirates or lose of ball, like Speak Easy, should impact TGP. But I don’t know if it is policed.

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54

well then the trap up rules need to be changed / you don’t want an player to time out while waiting for an ruling or to deal with an stuck ball.

Say an stuck ball in an multi ball mode than can end ball / game?

Also what is normal feature of the machine’s gameplay. Say there is an video mode that kills flippers but an ball can get kick out.
An few games even have ball search bugs that can kick the ball out in the video mode with the flippers dead.
normal feature of the machine’s gameplay.

also the “Should a player lose a ball due to a flipper not engaging when the flipper button is pressed, or due to a flipper
sticking in the held position when the flipper button is pressed”
Seems to be more direct with any per game overrides listed at all

Other IFPA rules have per game Examples for stuff that is odd.

the stuck balls part has it’s own rule with
“if an player does not regain complete control (stopped on a flipper) it’s an major malfunction.”

That may also things like WOZ crystal ball exploit = no complete control.

Dirty Pool is covered some what (but does not list all games with setups that allow it as to ok or not)

At the very lest Loss of Ball In Play Not from Tilt or Drain needs to be listed in a few parts with maybe list of games as Examples. And it may need an rule saying that after freeing an stuck ball an TD can hit an zero or low scoring target to reset mode time if the game as it.

Now if we say make the Dirty Pool rule simpler say is OK on all game with an setup that let’s it happen. (to remove player / tech / scorekeeper / TD burden of needing to know all game rules)
Then the same needs to happen with Loss of Ball In Play Not from Tilt or Drain.
As some games just end the mode and you get your ball back.

TD burden of needing to know all game rules can be an issue (even more so if say after update 5.XX it does that) But before it does not. And then later say they removed it / changed it in update 8.XX to not end game any more

Now what if players get into an argument over it say some don’t know the rules of the game that deep and some players think something failed and others say it’s part of the game rules?

55

I have to stop opening this thread :woozy_face:

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56

But what if but what if but what if.

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57

Colin MacAlpine beat TNA in Cactus Jacks Silverball Showdown in 2019. Not sure what ball he did it on.

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58

Rather than just updating the existing certification standards and value boost, which seem to work very well for a lot of mid-sized shows/events, why not just add a second certification tier with these new standards and boost value but also keep the existing one?

Like others have pointed out, the new standards seem very stringent and would probably only apply to a small number of tournaments that aren’t already majors. That’s also a fairly drastic change in value as a tournament hits that magic number of 128 rated players. Some middle ground would be nice, and having the existing tier in between the new certification standard and a normal tournament I think would help.

It might also take pressure off of event organizers to try to squeeze in too many players and/or games played for what the venue allows. We just had a really great tournament at Allentown Pinfest (run by Levi, Tim, and Greg who did a great job) which had a nice balance to it by keeping the player count and games/entries count within reason for the event time and space. I would hate to see that change in an attempt to chase the new standards.

Just something to consider. I should also note that I really like idea of the 150% TGP boost for extra games played in long season leagues, thanks for that.

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59

It was on ball 3

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60

I suggest there be a TGP penalty for Flip Frenzy or any format where the number of games played that count toward qualification will not be equal for all tournament participants.

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