Yellow Cards, behavior and penalties


#208

I have this concern as well. I am closely watching a player we’ve had issues with in the past and I have a feeling he will just do his thing until the yellow card, then backs off. It’s hard to get it through to people that yellow cards aren’t to say you get one freebie each tournament.


#209

I think she got a warning, she lost a point, she lost a game.


#210

Which equals to 0.06% of her earned income last year. I’d be happy to throw a $1 to ProjectPinball for my actions.


#211

To put that fine in persepctive with what she was playing for at the event, it’s a 0.447% fine compared to the prize for first place.

I have no problem fining Becker a similar amount, which would be . . .$27 based on the IFPA15 prize pool.

Pay up Becker! And that’s US DOLLARS, not this Canadian Dollar bullshit :slight_smile:


#212

Take it out of my salary! :smiley:


#213

Yet you add conditions like the following…
In my history of competing and organizing events over 25 years, I’ve NEVER seen a player thrown out of a Major Championship while they still have a chance to win the event

It’s one thing to say “ive never seen a player ejected at a major” but to say “ive never seen a player ejected at a major” and “while they still have a chance to win” shows that those somehow that can carry weight in the decision to eject. How would it be a monumental decision if the rules were being applied objectively? It would be an alignment of consequences, not a big decision.

I think we see a disconnect in some people’s expectation of conduct… and what is the prevailing enforcement of such conduct.


#214

That classification was in there because Jorian was ejected from an event in Sweeden after he had just lost

so he has seen someone ejected, just not when they still had a chance to win.


#215

But for her second offense she got a full game point deducted. That’s huge… like being DQ’d in a match. For any other match, that would have been significant… just here she was already on the way to the L :slight_smile:


#216

Right, second offence…


#217

Yet, he doesn’t think it will happen (ejection while significant) - if the context doesn’t matter… it should not be so surprising if it were to happen. It would be a matter of probability, not significance.


#218

What if I said I dispute this: “it seems like a yellow card with no consequences might encourage folks to push social boundaries.”

  1. There are consequences. A repeat of this type of action will result in ejection. Even if the individual is still alive in the World Championship.

  2. I don’t think Adam said “I need a yellow card to get my head right. And after that I’ll back off and receive no consequences. SMASH.” We can ask him. Any time I’ve ever done something similar I’ve been in a terrible state of mind. I’ve almost instantly regretted it. I don’t know what I’d do if I got a yellow card. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten one. I have no frame of reference for this.
    (How did you do a similar action but not have a frame of reference? Because I didn’t receive a card though I deserved one. I still regretted the action)

Let’s not assume there is no consequence to receiving a yellow card just because the tournament was allowed to continue. Perhaps embarrassment is a consequence. I don’t know.


#219

I’ve seen plenty of “on their way out the door” red cards after a player was already eliminated.

I’m waiting for a TD to enforce the consequence of suspending that player for the next event because of that conduct.

In the Jorian incident the TD was trying to get Jorian removed from the WPPR results as “the consequence”. After I refused that to be a solution, I pushed them to simply ban Jorian from the event the following year because of that conduct. The TD did not.


#220

Maybe? The IFPA President seems to indicate that may not be the case.

For some folks it certainly is. Others can be pretty shameless and even proud of shitty behaviour.


#221

Also want to rebut this, at NO point do I say it was worth it.

Even in the context of the show I said very specifically I shouldn’t act like that. At no point was I thinking, I’m going to smash this machine cause I can get away with it.

I don’t deal with frustration well, I’m still learning how to handle it better and you should be able to tell I was unhappy with my own behavior.

I’d say the card system works very well for me.

The consequence is now I’m off my game, I have to focus more on how I’m feeling and dealing with that then just playing.

I’m not making excuses for my behavior, far from it, I’m trying to fix it, but at no point have I EVER thought, I’m going to act out in this terrible way cause I can get away with it.

Every outburst, every violent reaction I’ve ever had was because that was how I was raised and I was never taught how to handle anything with anything other than that kind of reaction. I’m trying to learn and change the behavior, but 25+ years of being treated one way, it’s hard to break that mold.


#222

I would have kicked myself out if I had another outburst like that, and as a TD of the IFPA WC I could have.

I know 100% Josh would have as well


#223

Without hesitation.

My yellow cards specifically come with extreme direct language in the realm of “if you do anything like that again you’re f*cking done”, along with asking for acknowledgment of “do you understand?”.

We take player conduct and the issuance of our yellow cards that seriously because our next step is that red card.

In my experience it’s been very effective in curtailing behavior we don’t want out of our players at our events.


#224

I kind of wish yellow cards would be announced publicly. I feel like they’re often being handled in a very private manner and I think some more public accountability would be an improvement.

Caveat: I haven’t played in a super serious pinball tournament in over a year, my opinion is all based on personal anecdotes.


#225

Contact your player privately and let them know bad behavior from them will be an immediate red card.

The TD is the arbiter of acceptable behavior at their events. Keeping track of a pattern of undesirable behavior and penalizing accordingly is appropriate. Communicate to your players that a pattern of bad behavior will have escalating penalties.


#226

I have considered this and that will be the next step if I feel he’s abusing the card system. We will see. Hate stuff like this. Just follow the rules! Haha


#227

I feel like this is up to the organizers on how they want to handle the issue. Do you stop play at Pinburgh to announce a yellow card? Do you ask everyone to congregate around the stage similar to the opening announcements?

I’ve had positive results handling them privately with the player at fault. By “positive” I mean never having to issue a red card, while also seeing a material change in that player’s behavior going forward.

I don’t feel there’s a need as a TD to try and publicly embarrass the player or make them feel more accountable for their actions than they already are. In the history I’ve given yellow cards, 100% of them have been met with the understanding and accountability from the player that their conduct was unacceptable. That’s enough for me as a TD.