Yellow Cards, behavior and penalties


#228

It’s none of your business if someone got a yellow card. That is between them and the TD and staff.

This is the problem I have with this, and I know I’ve said enough already, but it’s not your job to tell me how to behave. I’m a grown adult and I will behave how I want to. Their is already to much insight into how I should be allowed to live my life. I don’t need it here either.

Put the system in place and follow it and be done. But since we are ALL measured on the same scale that system needs to be done at the IFPA level and enforced as such. You shouldn’t be able to ban a person you don’t like and still let it be IFPA endorsed unless that person is banned from the IFPA in general. If that’s the case then funny business can and will show up. We’ve seen it before where groups of people manipulate the rules to benefit themselves and this can be done here as well.

For instance, let’s say I’m needing some points for state qualifying to get number 1 seed. Sorry, Colin, Robert, Phil, etc you are banned from my tournament because I’m the TD and I say so. If their is going to be any integrity in the IFPA system then everyone MUST be on the same page.


#229

I would be very uncomfortable with the IFPA having the power to ban anyone from sanctioned events. And what may be a yellow card at a house tournament in rural Utah may not be one at a punk bar in Seattle. The only time I feel like the IFPA or PAPA should announce anything regarding a player’s conduct to the people outside of a tournament in an official capacity would be if a player’s conduct or current mental health in some way made them a clear and present danger to the community at large.


#230

Does that include discussing player behavior inbetween TDs themselves?

I believe in TDs running their own events… but with the best info available.


#231

Agreed about the last part but the first part shouldn’t be different. If it’s unacceptable behavior for pinball then it shouldn’t matter when or where.

I’m of the opinion if I’m not doing physical harm to someone else, the machine or verbally attacking someone then leave me alone. If you don’t like how I act then don’t associate with me.

I’d feel it’s your loss though as when not competing I’m very mellow and will give you the shirt off my back. But when competing I do tend to get a little less mild tempered (mainly with myself).

i really don’t buy this thought that it hinders the growth of pinball as this has been going on for decades and the growth seems pretty strong to me. What’s more impactful to the growth of competitive pinball is the new trend of limited entry match play events. These things are selling out in a day (proof growth is their) so the average Joe whom may want to try competitive pinball stands nearly no chance of even getting registered.


#232

Yes, TD’s should be able to discuss things to “calibrate” on what a decision should be made so that everyone is consistent.


#233

No. As that wouldn’t be an official communication to the community at large. It would be a private communication between two individuals. I also have no problem with them bringing up people on message boards as I don’t feel Doug or Josh are speaking officially in these situations.


#234

Yellow cards don’t necessarily need to be announced, but they should be a public record of the tournament, and they should be tracked. Soccer carries penalties for too many yellows across tournaments; IFPA can do the same.


#235

I think publication of this could end up being valuable to both players and TDs for that very reason. It provides both players and TDs insight into the expectations and behaviour of each other.


#236

I feel like having a public record of bad behavior, or behavior that might be interpreted as bad by, say, an HR department, openly displayed online is bad for everyone involved. A person at a league event I played in recently was ejected for being too drunk. While it wasn’t IFPA sanctioned I wouldn’t want that to be a scarlet letter on their pinball resume, or heaven forbid be public record on the internet.

Also for the record I thought they were fine. A bit tipsy but their actions weren’t in any way aggressive or out of character. It was the door guy’s decision in this case to eject the person, but I could see a TD making the same call and ‘red carding’.


#237

Yea, I’m not looking for scarlet letter type things, more like a technical foul in basketball, which are also part of the post-game statistics. Maybe call it that instead of a yellow card to reduce stigma? Every sport seems to have ways of tracking bad actors - yellow/red cards, technicals, ejections… it may be inevitable that pinball must do the same as more and more people compete.


#238

The Pittsburgh Pinball League has just started tracking yellow cards across the season (rather than each weekly meet). It’ll be interesting to see what effect it has.


#239

Bat City also started tracking them. The first month we gave out five. So far in month two we have given zero. 25ish players a week, four week seasons. They are noted on the public score sheet by the player name and if a warning is issued it’s noted in the weekly update email without naming the player.


#240

I kinda like that yellow cards should be somewhat public. No need to make an announcement, just make sure everyone who witnessed the offense can use it as a frame of reference for later. I think it would help clear up some of the grey space between when or why things get called. I know I’ve seen one issued that made me second guess my own attitude which in turn curbed my agression for the duration of the night.


#241

While I have no real opinion either way on making earned yellow cards public information, those that do should be prepared for the inevitable situation where someone knows that an opponent is on a yellow and uses that information to try and induce another one. For example: I’m losing to this person, he/she is on a yellow already and just did something questionable, maybe if I report it I can get them ejected!

Before you call that idea crazy… remember that we’re at a point where we have to give cards for bad behavior in the first place.


#242

But is this really any different than before the information was public? You could use the same kind of strategies before hand too… So now it takes one less strike? I think we are talking tempest in a teapot here.

You’re trying to get into the realm of ‘trying to prevent nefarious thoughts’ - You can’t win that battle. It really doesn’t enable anyone that much. And it’s defending against hypotheticals that have extreme low probability. At some point, you just gotta say… focus on the center.


#243

I don’t think they are that low of probabilities at all. I see people all the time trying to get into other peoples head at tournaments. It’s part of the game for some. This is just another tactic they can use and I agree that some will use it. Take someone that you know already has a short fuse, it would be very easy to egg them on to additional frustration if you wanted them too. Shoot, I don’t go to very many tournaments as it is and I’ve personally had this stuff done at least half a dozen times to where someones tried to get into my head while playing them.

Ya’ll took this whole yellow card/red card thing from soccer so use it as an example. You know a player is already on a yellow card, it is VERY common to see the other team try and bring out an additional yellow for that player even to the point of taking dives. It happens and if you think pinball is an exception to that behavior then you need to think again. This isn’t a cake and eat it thing.


#244

I’m glad this doesn’t happen in my area.


#245

Same. WTF.


#246

Which is why I said “You can’t win that battle” - You can’t regulate people who are going to scheme to manipulate those angles. You close one door, they’ll simply look for another. It’s back to the realm of “unenforcable” - so don’t bother. Does it ENABLE that behavior more? To a degree, but it doesn’t CREATE a new problem, because as you say, you can do this already. So does it make the problem dramatically worse? I don’t think so, nor do I think it’s a generalized problem.


#247

LOL!! My poor Congo…Seriously though it is fine and pretty sure bouncing around in the trailer on the way to LAX was more likely to jar something loose than this…unless you’re talking about the camera rig set up…and that wasn’t under my control! LOL!! :wink:

Phoebe