Yellow Cards, behavior and penalties


#188

In the first video, the tilt bob didn’t settle for over a minute when left alone. With the banging, it settled in 15 seconds or so. Not all TD’s have the keys to games. Even if you have the keys, if your league plays in public locations, it’s not likely the ear plugs will be installed, then removed a couple hours later when league is done.


#189

Why would you ever remove the ear plug? Take two seconds and stays forever.

I have no issue with the player doing this to help settle the bob.


#190

Just curious - if anyone did have a problem with it in a competitive setting, would a distraction claim be ok, similar to the ones that have been made against headlamps?


#191

Not sure how it is elsewhere, but ops handing over keys to league members is a new thing around here. Still rare. When the keys are handed over, the intention is to only retrieve stuck balls and minor stuff like that. Don’t even change the volume. I suppose we could ask ops to install the ear plugs. Do location games in your area have ear plugs installed full time?


#192

I would have to deal with it should lots of people complain about it, but I’d be using ear plugs on all games I deem necessary so I doubt it would get to that point.


#193

Yes. Ear plugs full time should we deem it necessary.


#194

In theory, you should be able to put in an earplug and then tighten the tilt a little. Then the game has the same sensititivity to tilts on a given move, but it eliminates the cheap ones that happen 30 or 60 seconds later due to excessive swinging.

A big move on my local TNA could give you one danger right away, and then another one or two 60 seconds later…usually when your opponent was well into their ball. No reason to ever have a game set up like that. Installed an earplug in five seconds and the problem is gone.


#195

I’ve got earplugs in my Bally/Williams games. It seems to help a lot. The Stern tilt mech doesn’t seem to need it.


#196

The IFPA world championship episode of how the game is played is now available online.


#197

Somehow they managed to do a piece without Pinball Wizard in the background or mentioning that the game was once outlawed!


#198

I told them not to :smiley:


#199

Wasn’t that the one at his house?


#200

Yeah, that was pretty disappointing.

Part of me wishes there were some sort of consequence to receiving a yellow card. A big part of this game is knowing how to push boundaries up to the point of receiving warnings, then backing off before there are consequences. Our culture rewards and celebrates those who receive a double warning without tilting, so it seems like a yellow card with no consequences might encourage folks to push social boundaries.


#201

Well, there is… the next one is an ejection. But I think you are talking about grander scale…

If you want to work ‘cumulative effects’ into the system… have TD’s report yellow cards in the results of events and have them tracked on player profiles. Then histories will be available, and TDs can make their own decisions on players they may or may not want at their events. This enables TDs, creates a mirror for people to reflect in, and acts as a bit of a public discouragement… without messing with IFPA trying to ‘ban people’


#202

The consequence is the official warning that any other detrimental conduct can and will lead to your ejection of the tournament. With the yellow cards I’ve personally issued, I’ve seen direct impact on the behavior of that player after the card was issued (in a positive way).

For any TD out there that would literally eject Becker for that glass punch, right at the point where he’s down 3-1 in a World Championship Quarterfinal match . . . I’ll believe it when I see it.

In my history of competing and organizing events over 25 years, I’ve NEVER seen a player thrown out of a Major Championship while they still have a chance to win the event. It would mark a monumental decision for that to take place.

I can respect to quick comments of “I would have ejected him right there and then” . . . but to me that talk is pretty cheap unless you’re actually faced with that exact situation at that exact moment.

We’ve had this game abuse situation in the past, and I’ve always gotten together with the host and defer to their authority if they want to eject the player for that abuse. No host has ever wanted to take things that far, and obviously with this situation of Adam being the host, that would be insanely monumental for him to throw himself out.

Whether it’s Stone, or Becker, or Fred, or myself, there’s been enough bad behavior on streams that have been just as bad . . . not a single red card has ever been issued (at least when any player has still been alive in the tournament).


#203

So you’re saying who it is… and when it is… plays into your rules enforcement?

That right there just undermines the rules period.


#204

Not at all. I’m saying that NO PLAYER has been ejected from the finals of a Major Championship in the nearly 30 years that they’ve been happening for player conduct.

The first time that happens will be a monumental thing in the sport.

I don’t believe Becker’s incident deserved to be that monumental incident, which is why I gave him a yellow card for player conduct.

There is probably some truth to “when it is” that’s in play here. Comparing this to your monthly bar tournament or whatever isn’t something that I’m comparing this to.


#205

No doubt, but this lines up with my point on training players to push limits then back off only once they’ve been warned. Kinda the same way that I’m not going to go for an aggressive save after a double waring… until the next ball anyway.

It’s a tough problem to solve, because there aren’t many possible consequences to bad behavior. We have a warning that lasts for the duration of a single event, followed by ejection. As you point out, TDs are going to be hesitant to actually eject a player for the majority of these actions.

I hadn’t really thought through what the possible consequences for a yellow card could be, but @flynnibus’s comment on recording/publishing yellow cards doesn’t seem terrible. The penalty is significantly lower than an ejection, and provides other players and TDs with the knowledge that a given player may be difficult. This of course should also have negative implications for any player who wishes not to have information about themselves published.

The idea that players would only be required to remain civil in low levels of play is completely backwards.


#206

I’m not saying it’s not completely backwards, but it’s reality in sports.

Serena Williams at the most recent tennis Major Championship:
http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=24617113

She’s not getting EJECTED for player conduct here, costing her a chance at winning the tournament.

If that happens at my son’s 6-8 year old tennis tournament . . .that kid is getting tossed immediately.

To believe that the context of the incident should have no bearing on the decision to yellow or red card a player is not the real world IMO.

I’m all for TD’s handling things how they prefer, so to each their own. Like I said, I would love to see the TD that would have thrown Becker out at that moment for that conduct.


#207

I seem to recall she got a bit more than a warning for that – $17k fine, IIRC.