# The Komi concept

In a 2-player match on NBAF (typically two-digit scores), in a tournament where the game score average at about 50, Would you rather…

• Be player 1 and declared winner if the game score is tied
• Be player 2 and lose if game score is tied

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If you answered player 2 above, how many points do you think would be fair to give as a bonus to player 1 (in addition for the effective 0.5 points for winning ties) to compensate for the disadvantage of playing first? (Don’t answer 0 because you value simplicity before fairness. What is fair?)

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0 voters

The only fair outcome is a 1-ball or 1-game tiebreaker for tied games of NBAFB or anything else.

9 Likes

Turn on pinball scoring? If may show an difference for last game

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I don’t get it, you’re saying the game is tied and player one is declared the winner, and asking if I’d rather be player 1 or player 2? I’ll pick being the winner, thanks.

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To clarify: Normally, meaning according to the present rules, most players would, if given the choice, pick to be player 2, because you have more information late than early. But if the rules instead were that if the game score is tied, for instance both players got 53 points, player 1 wins, would you think that is worth more than the information advantage for player 2, so then you would pick to be player 1? (If so, would you also do that if the game wasn’t NBAF, but AFM?)

Of course I want to be player 2 but I don’t see why player 1 should get undeserved points. We don’t give free points on any other machine as far as I know…

Is this just for conversation, or something you actually want to implement? I think doing anything other than a tiebreaker played out by the tied individuals would be a poor choice.

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The answer to “why” is in the answer to the first question: People want to be player 2. Let’em pay for it.
What if player 1 started off with 1.5 undeserved points, would you still want to be player 2? Where is your limit?

Thank you for your time. I want to understand just how large the late-player advantage is.

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I wouldn’t give up any game points for player order.

Not a simple answer. Some games being player 2 (or the last player) is a HUGE advantage as you know what strategy you need to do if player 1 does something. Over simplification:
Bride of Pinball - Player 1 get the billion shot. As player 2 you know you have no choice but going for billion shot. Not best example as there isn’t really anything else to do on that game but hopefully it makes the point.

Other games to where your strategy doesn’t change no matter what, then it doesn’t matter.

For NBA fast Break, I’d still rather to be player 2 as the chances of a tie, even in that game are very low and extremely rare.

At the end of the day, if tie goes to player 1 I would still rather be player 2 as ties almost never happen.

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Except in most circumstances, the player electing to play last “earned” that right by playing better earlier on to be a higher seed. Why would they be expected to “pay” for something they earned?

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If I were P2 my course of action would be to complain to the TD about why BoP is in the tourney.

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We used NBA Fastbreak in league for around a year and we had way more ties then you would think and we always did a single ball playoff. I would never personally want to break a tie based on which position a player chose.

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I dont really understand, so im going to re format your question and hope i get it right.

Before said game of fastbreak, player X is given choice of game or position with the caveat that if they choose 2nd and the game is a tie, they will be declared the loser.

And youre asking if people would still be inclined to choose the last available position based on this caveat.

Is this correct?

Yes. And in that case I choose first, because NBAFB it doesnt matter what your score - strategy doesn’t change.

Disagree with that. If it’s ball 3 and I’m player 2 and behind by a lot, I’ll go for a multiball, but if I’m down by a little, I might go for a left saucer mode.

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That is pretty much what I mean. Players don’t decide game in this example. I am sorry for the confusion.
And if the answer is yes, then what about 1.5 point bonus for player 1, meaning player 2 loses also if his score was actually 1 point higher than player 1? Etc.
And then I would really want to know how much score you would give up to be player 2 at AFM, just as an example. Feel free to answer in just score, or in % of score.

I have data from FSPA: we’ve had NBA Fastbreak in one of our leagues for a few years. 485 league games have been played (a mix of 3 and 4 player groups – 1660 plays total), and there have been 21 ties, so about 4.3% of NBAFB games resulted in a tie.

(And yes, we do single ball playoff to resolve.)

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Im not going to think about this because i would absolutely never play in an event with this as a rule. Sorry. Pinball should be decided by pinball. Not formats, not coins or TDs.

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Does anyone watch basketball we had this game in league and we played

overtime 1 ball if tied still,
double overtime 2 ball if tied still,
triple overtime ball 3

We never got past double overtime in 2 league seasons playing this game.