On Wizard of Oz Player 4, ball 2 drains down the left outlane and starts There’s No Place Like Home mode. During the mode the left flipper button falls out and causes him to lose the ball. Does he get a compensation ball at the end of the game?
The flipper button was placed back into the game and everyone played their ball 3 without the button falling out again.
Does the amount of time left or the progress made in There’s No Place Like Home at the point of the malfunction have any bearing on the ruling? For example, the player just started the mode versus one shot remaining to get the ball save/continue. Even if the player doesn’t complete the 4 stages to reward the ball save/continue there are still points being scored during this mode, so it seems a compensation ball might be appropriate.
What’s the ruling if there is a major malfunction during Toto Escape mode?
What about during the Million Dollar Shot in NBA Fastbreak?
Maybe there are other games with a similar feature.
Interesting. Depending on the situation, I would say that’s pinball, or recreate the situation and see if they earn their ball back.
Start a new game with the glass off and drain out the left outlane after hitting all the appropriate targets. Then let the player play the mode. If they earn it, they get a comp ball. If they don’t, they don’t.
Are any of these different from a kickback malfunction, really?
Is it a malfunction? Yes.
Did it cause premature end of ball? You didn’t describe this, but I assume you came to the conclusion yes. However, I would talk to the player, make sure they drained because of the malfunction and have them convince me they made every reasonable attempt to cradle up with the other flipper. But in this case it sounds like yes.
I would enforce the rules as written, and give a compensation ball. They rules have no provision for running modes where loss of ball occurs after a timer. Maybe they should.
Interesting, had they managed to cradle up, and the timer expired before the issue could be resolved, I would rule no compensation ball (not compensated for loss of running modes).
This feels wrong, but seems to be how things are written.
TBH, personally, there’s no guarantee any of those things are completed, especially not TNPLH. I would be extremely hesitant to award a compensation ball. I realize this is probably not how the rules read.
I agree this is probably something that should get special-cased.
100% compensation ball imo.
Compensation ball definitely.
Player lost the ball due to a major malfunction - left flipper failing.
It’s irrelevant how the flipper failed, or what the state of play of the game was.
Had the flipper failed in a multiball, or wizard mode, you wouldn’t try and recreate the state of the machine before giving a compensation ball.
Wow. Surprised this is leaning towards comp ball. Yeah they lost the ball due to malfunction. But it was during NPLH. That is a very hard mode that ends your turn if not completed. I am very hesitant to award a full new ball for a malfunction like that. Especially in a game that may be be for big bucks.
No place like home is a long, complicated kickback. Would you award a compensation ball for a kickback failure? Then why would you do it here?
The ball was in play, not a failed kickback in my opinion. Comp ball if I was TD. The lesson learned here is to tighten those PAL nuts once in a while.
If this was my local monthly, I’d lean toward recreating it on ball 1 of a new game.
This isn’t a fair comparison. It’s actually: kickback kicks ball back into play and gives you roughly 2 minutes to complete various objects before putting you back into normal play.
Other people have mentioned that it’s a hard mode…but I don’t see how we can start making rulings based on whether we think the player can execute a series of required shots.
Also, you score points during TNPLH. Even if the player doesn’t complete it…they could have up to 2ish minutes of scoring with a ball in play. You can score tens of thousands of points during it (which people don’t often realize because it doesn’t actively display your score or the points you’re earning).
Side note 1: I played a tourney recently where they did everything possible to neuter TNPLH because, much to my surprise, you can’t disable it in software (but you can disable TOTO).
Side note 2: @keefer Any chance that JJP will ever implement the ability to open the coin door and change the number of balls during gameplay? IIRC, going into the menus currently ends the entire game for all players.
To me, if you’re playing No Place Like Home, you are actively in game play, and the result of the flipper button falling out should be the same as in any other game play. Now if it had been something that happened while attempting to start NPLH (say the pop bumper stopped working) then in that case I would say no compensation because it is much more in line with the “same as a kickback” ruling. I don’t think that calling the entire mode “one big extended kickback” is fair though. The mode itself, regardless of whether it actually results in continuation of normal play or not, is actually worth real points, and draining out of it is no different than any other similar situation IMO. I would give the compensation ball.
Cayle is right. The ball has not drained and a major malfunction occurred. Full compensation ball.
Unrelated question. Suppose the same thing happened on Beat the Clock at 0:00. What happens?! I think it would still be one ball on a new game.
Next thing, someone from FSPA will come in and say the player get’s no compensation and I will be certain I woke up in bizzaro world.
You just gave me a reason to never use BTC again in a tournament.
I definitely don’t want to have to be the poor guy/gal that needs to make this ruling at a high stakes event.
What are some situations where you would recreate game state? I thought there were some.
BTC doesn’t count towards TGP, does it?
I used it in basically every tournament I ran last year so … I hope so!
No attempt will be made, regardless of stakes or round, at least for PAPA and Pinburgh. The rules do provide an “out” for the TD to do whatever they want, primarily so that events like IFPA can run in their own spirit.
The only exception is providing a specific denied opportunity associated with a ball in play. For example, a double bonus or Multiball lit on the last ball of a game. In those cases the compensation ball will be that final ball instead.
Ok- that does change my opinion. Thanks!