Question on IFPA Tournament Finals Formats

Hi,
My question is in regards to setting up tournaments and submitting the results to IFPA. We ran a tournament last night using PAPA style scoring. We had 24 players and broke up into 6 groups of 4. We used the 4 player group matchplay format for 3 round of 2 matches each. After the first 2 match round, we regrouped based on swiss style pairing. So, we all ended up playing 6 games total and the final standings were based on the highest points achieved throughout the 3 rounds. Based on the info pasted below from the IFPA TGP section, I submitted the results as 24 TGP. But, I am not sure what is meant by “3 game rounds”? Does it mean 3 rounds of x number of games? Or, does it mean x number of rounds with 3 games (matches) each? In either case, what is x?
Thanks,
TJ

PAPA Style Match Play
3 game Rounds, 4 player groups whenever possible (receives 2X bonus for 4-player games)
4-5 players –> 6 games towards TGP
6-11 players –> 12 games towards TGP
12-22 players –> 18 games towards TGP
23-45 players –> 24 games towards TGP
46-91 players –> 30 games towards TGP
4 game Rounds, 4 player groups whenever possible (receives 2X bonus for 4-player games)
4-5 players –> 8 game towards TGP
6-11 players –> 16 games towards TGP
12-22 players –> 24 games towards TGP
23-45 players –> 32 games towards TGP

It’s 3 games each round. The number of rounds is determined by the number of players.

You may find this calculator easier to use: http://tgp.slapsave.com/

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3 game rounds = 3 games played EACH ROUND

For your situation here is the TGP breakdown:

You played 3 rounds, 2 games per round = 6 games played

Because you had 4-player groups, this is valued at 2X, so it would be 12 meaningful games played for TGP.

This will grade out to 48% TGP.

Ok gotcha, I selected the incorrect TGP based on my interpretation of the info when entering our results this AM. I did add the details to the format section so it can be corrected when entering the points. So, it sounds like TGP is just the number of games each player plays that feed into the final standings…
Thanks!

Wow, I got it right, 48%. I’m getting better at this!

Correct. I like to think of TGP = Total Games Played (although it’s actually TGP = Tourney Grading Percentage, which is derived from your total games played)
Just note that for total games played, you get to multiply the actual games played…
… by 2x if you grouped into as many 4-player group games as possible while having minimum group size of 3 players for “remainder” groups. (Ex: if 14 players, then groups of 4-4-3-3)
… by 1.5x if you grouped into as many 3-player group games as possible while having minimum group size of 2 players for “remainder” groups. (Ex: if 11 players, then groups of 3-3-3-2)

Ok so excuse the novice questions, but, TGP has nothing to do with how many players participate? How are the number of participants factored into the equation for points?

Correct.
https://www.ifpapinball.com/menu/ranking-info/#tgp
"Every tournament will have the Base Value + TVA multiplied by the TGP to determine the final 1st place value of the tournament. The TGP will be based on the quality of the format of the event. Both the finals component of a tournament and the qualifying portion of a tournament (if there is one) will be included in the calculation. Tournaments that have unlimited qualifying attempts will be graded slightly different from tournaments that have limited qualifying attempts or no qualifying portion. Please note the Pingolf format now has it’s own unique grading system, available HERE."

Also, note that I edited my prior post re: TGP.

Participants that have played in at least 5 IPFA endorsed events add .5 points to the pool per player. Prior to that they add nothing.

There is an additional multiplier based on the “difficulty” of the field that’s based off the average participant’s ranking/rating.

The IFPA link has all the details, but here’s a simple version:

How many people?
generates Base Value; beginners don’t count their first 5 times, but everyone else counts equally [half a point]. Maximum base value 32 no matter how many players there are.

How good are the players?
generates TVA, the “strength of field” adjustment. Adds to Base Value; beginners add nothing, high-ranked players add a bit over 1 point each, value added by a player scales throughout that range. Only the best 64 players add value [there’s some fine print I’ll omit here].

How challenging is the format?
generates TGP factor; essentially, how many games do people play relative to a standard of 25 head-to-head games. Always 1.00 [25+ games for full value] or less.

Is it a Major?
PAPA, IFPA, European Championship and Pinburgh all get a multiplier of 1.5 applied to the whole thing since they’re a Big Deal and are exceptionally challenging.

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Is this this really the rule? I thought it was suppose to be the actual expected number of games played by the winner. So it would be (8/14)*2+(6/14)*1.5 which would be like a 1.78 multipler in practice.

It’s hard enough to get the current math requirements right…

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That is really the rule. 3 strikes events especially can vastly vary round to round with how many 4 player groups are actually formed. It would be too difficult and time consuming to calculate that average every single round. If the tournament is designed to be 4 player groups wherever possible it gets the benefit of the doubt on the 2x multiplier.

Cool. Then stupid question, what about a 9 person tournament?

A 9 person 3-strike tournament would still be counted at 2X. I believe the software used does the best job it can to make groups of 4, and that’s enough for us. There’s obviously some holes here for some minor exploitation of value, but mehhhh, at least next year you’ll be paying for that exploitation :wink:

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How would you do 4 player groups with 9 players? Think you’d be forced into 3 player groups considering the first 3 rounds are guaranteed only 4 player groups. Possibly chance for a 4 player group after that but would likely be far less 4 player matches and 2 and 3 player matches :slight_smile:

Guess your thought on software trying it’s best is good enough :wink:

I wasn’t sure of the context . . . as in a 37 player 3-strike that is now down to 9 players.

Versus, open qualifying, 9 players advance to finals . . .and GO!

Those are two different ‘things’.

Or a 9 player 3 strike tournament

At a base value of 4.5 WPPR’s, my interest in caring is waning :slight_smile:

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Haha. That’s where I live man so just wondering.

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