Pinburgh - Allow byes to come in later for finals.

On Friday night before/during tie breakers can we look at single and double byes having the option to sign in and be allowed to arrive a little later on Saturday? The sign-in sheet can have the persons name , cell # and show the time they need to arrive.

What are your thoughts?


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Gut feeling is that I would optimize for TDs over players in this case. I.e. force all players to sign in Saturday morning. Nobody’s got time to track down a bye player that isn’t there on time.


I assume the idea is to have a set block of 40 before finals begins so no one gets a lucky absentee in their finals group and gets to play in a group of 3 if a bye player doesn’t show up later. I imagine I’m in a very small group of players who missed finals in Pinburgh history by misunderstanding check-ins and obviously it won’t happen again :stuck_out_tongue:


The issue comes when that person doesn’t show for his/her round. Also, during finals none of the tournament crew has the time to track down or call players.

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If the person doesn’t show they get dq’d and lose $$, I don’t think that will be much of a problem. People can also sign-in and after their bye get lost and not show back up in time.

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At this point, filling at 40 qualifier spots with people actually willing to check in at the assigned time is more valuable to me as a TD than letting a double bye player get some extra shut-eye. :slight_smile:

The way we do it now has the least impact on the actual tournament structure. But having said that, we can consider it.


Only one player was missing from the start of finals this year; a bye player from Division D.

I’d be in favor of having players with byes call in during the registration period.


This creates a huge competitive imbalance. I’ll take the spot in the 3-to-make-2 group, please!


100% behind Bowen on this…

On a somewhat similar note, there was a player who did check in to the Intergalactic playoffs, but then reportedly left for the airport without playing a single ball. This resulted in one group with 3 players, but only 1 person received a strike in that group. I only have second hand information, so if I’m wrong, please correct me on this. If it is true though, I hope that the player will receive some form of punishment. Also, someone else would have been very happy to play instead of him.

another great twitter use case :slight_smile: Post when a division hits the round before the players are due (thus giving approx 60-90min warning).

I don’t think the morning check-in really helps having people ready… if you have a double bye… that means you are 3hrs or more out… some people are just as likely to leave and try to come back.

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How was it determined who would fill spot 40?


This is correct. A player checked in and then left.

So round 1 started with 10 groups of 4. When this player was called for his turn, another player informed me what this player had done. So we “officially” plunged his ball and gave him the DQ for round 1 (Thus only one other person got a strike in that group, as he was officially the 2nd receiving one), and then removed him from the tourney,

This resulted in groups of 3 where two players got strikes two rounds earlier than there normally would be. Per Schwarzenberger ended up in both of these groups and amazingly pulled out the wins in both, but it certainly didn’t help the chances of the players he beat in winning the tourney.

One could wonder why someone would sign in for a finals that they know full well they will not be participating in - I guess for the shot at at more WPPRs (There was no way he could have finished in the prize paying positions without playing), But I thought it was a very selfish thing to do.

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Player 41 did.

This is the reason EVERYONE has to check in: We take alternates for finals. If you can’t stay for finals (what a Jagoff that guy in Intergalactic is, BTW), if you have a family emergency, if you sleep in, you miss out.

And the next guy in line steps up.

Never forget there are at least 60 people who didn’t make finals who would love the chance to play and win some money (if not some hardware). If you’re not there when check-in finishes, we start going down the list of who IS there, and invite them in.

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I was just asking as I knew several
People that were in the playoff for finals the evening before. I’m not sure they were aware to show up in case a spot opened up. I assume all players in the playoffs were
Made aware to show up in case a spot opened up.

Good god I hope so! That would be a really crappy thing for Bowen to leave out of his announcing duties.

I’ve seen this happen before … it’s about prize money. Suppose they made final 40 in A division of Pinburgh. But for whatever reason (poor planning or emergency) they need to leave Saturday morning. By checking in and leaving, they are assuming they will get 40th place, and still the $300 prize money. If the don’t show, they get nothing.

Now is that really the case? I’m not sure what the rules say. But they know for a fact that leaving will give them 0. So they at least try, and see what happens.

At NWPAS, due to the difficulty of filling in spots the next morning (not an obvious “who is next in line” based on qualifying), we don’t take any alternates. If someone doesn’t show up, 1st game they play is scored as a 4-player game, so maybe a freebie point for players in that group, but not really if you consider the player could have shown up and gotten last place. If player is a no-show by 2nd game in the round, the group plays the rest using 3-player scoring (which for NWPAS is reasonably well balanced with 4-player scoring), and player is DQ’d from rest of tourney. Thus if the player does qualify, they get lowest qualifying spot.

This same approach applies to anyone who needs to leave early. Happened at VFO last year, someone made it to final 4, but then had to leave before start of finals, so they got 4th place in finals.

So while using an alternate might make sense when getting started, there’s also the possibility of a player having to leave mid-playoffs, what do you do then? Whatever you do then, why not just apply that same rule for a no show in the first round?

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Basically what happened at Wimbledon this year. They were basically throwing the first match to collect.

We treat “not checked in for the beginning of the tournament/final” as separate from “missing in the middle of an ongoing round.” From the Pinburgh rules:

If a player who was present initially cannot be found during the play of a group, tournament officials must be notified promptly. That player will be allowed no more than 3 minutes to return. If he or she does not return, each ball for that player will be promptly plunged and left unplayed. Any player who has more than one such absence may be disqualified from the tournament.

Any player who is absent at the beginning of two consecutive sessions without notifying tournament coordinators of an emergency in advance will be disqualified from the tournament. Disqualified players will not appear in subsequent sessions nor may they qualify for finals.

Any player who is not present at the beginning of finals will be disqualified and replaced by the next lower-ranked player. Any player who is absent during final rounds will be subjected to the rules described above for absences during group play.