IFPA 2018 changes?

Wow, $500 sounds very inexpensive (aka “ridiculously cheap”) for all that. Shouldn’t the sponsorship rate be derived from the size of the audience / email list that they will reach (# of ranked players?). That way it increases every year (well, hopefully).

I mean, that’s like 3.3% of the cost of one Batman 66 SLE! Surely supporting the IFPA with all that it does to promote pinball, and thus, increase nib sales, is worth much more than that to the game vendors? Sounds like you guys need an agent.

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If it’s very inexpensive why don’t the sponsors seem to care whether they get the list from me or not?

The answer to me is pretty clear . . . it’s NOT worth anything to them. Their “sponsorship” is mostly a “donation” because they value the effort that we put in, but not because they are seeing any actual return from that investment in sponsorship.

Working within the industry allows me to take advantage of some of those perks. If we’re sponsoring a golf outing for a distributor at $1000 here at Raw Thrills, it’s easy for me to be leverage that into getting some IFPA support going the other way.

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Stern Pro machines as prizes is support I appreciate.

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Well, I’m not going to speculate on the prowess of Stern’s marketing dept. re: email lists of 30K competitive pinball players here, but it still feels like this is being grossly undervalued to me (I guess you mentioned that the email list is substantially smaller though as well).

My thinking is that the recent pinball resurgence is substantially due to the rapid rise of local competitive pinball tournaments, leagues, and most importantly, locations to play. I’m sure you understand all this, but bear with me while I illustrate my thinking and experiences.

Bad Old Days
Prior to this rise in competitive pinball the reason to put a game on location was to make $. But it became very difficult to make a profit putting new games on location due ot the high cost of the games, the costly and time-consuming ongoing maintance to keep the games playing well, and the lack of suitable locations willing to take a game. So gradually operators lost interest in further investing in either new games or maintance on older games, resulting in most games that could be found on location (fewer and farther between) being broken, dirty, and unpleasant to play. So it was a circle of doom resulting in the near extinction of pinball on location as people largely forgot that pinball was even still a thing (certainly no longer a mainstream thing).

Modern Pinball Resurgence
So then you have a small but growing group of pinball collector enthusists that maybe picked up a few broken older games as operatiors took them off location, who loved to play, but didn’t have a way to do so in a public. Gradually the notion that you could organize a local tournament, or even a league with fellow enthusiasts starts to spread (thanks IFPA!), and lo-and-behold fairly quickly you’ve given pinball a new reason to exist on location and for people to play them regularily, outside of purely for fun.

Now, you have locations with 5-10 well maintained games springing up, a mix of older and modern games in excellent condition, ready to play, and groups of players willing to play them regularily for tournaments, league play, selfie-leagues, and of course practice/fun. As word spreads (thank you social media) more and more people discover they can play pinball in their town, join a league, etc. Thus, a virtuous circle is created where more competitive pinball = more nice games on location = more players = more new games purchased…

I have experienced this first-hand with my own early collecting days, struggling to find location pinball, meeting a group of like-minded enthusiasts in my town via one-off tournaments, forming a league with said individuals and working to spread the word, and eventually forming a collective and putting games on location ourselves to support our league and tournaments to ensure top quality games are available. Along the way, many old and new players have joined us, and many of these have purchased games of their own, and many of those games have been NiB games. NiB games that never would have been sold if they hadn’t found our league along the way.

My long-winded point being that what the IFPA does/has done, in my opinion, is largely responsible for the recent resurgence in pinball popularity, and that the pinball vendors should be doing everything that they can to promote the growth of competitive pinball. Imagine if every state had as many games on location as Oregon and Washinton? What kind of value would that increase in market size have to the vendors? A lot more than $500/year. They should probably be sponsoring the state and national tournament prize pools with tens of thousands of dollars in prize money if that is what it takes to continue growing awareness of competitive pinball.

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I’ll drink to that! Thanks for the kind words.

To be fair Stern pays WAY MORE than $500 per year in sponsorship. We would love if other vendors in the industry stepped up to the level that they do, but greatly appreciate anything those vendors are willing to give at this point.

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People questioning the value of the list should read the response to JJP using that list to announce Dialed In. Spoiler alert, It made many people angry and probably did not acquire any new customers.

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I think you’ll find a bit of overlap between those surprised by their e-mail address being sold, and those expressing surprise at how cheaply the addresses can be purchased. I guess some folks value their PII more than others.

Getting back to the dollar. What happens to the dollar for people that sign up for the event, but then fail to complete the required 50% of games played? If it is a winners tax, and I can easily verify this with software and compute the amount to hold back, then it is fine. But a hypothetical otherwise free event that only charges a dollar, that money is ackward. Someone paid to be included in the results, and then did not qualify to be included in the results. Can a TD overpay the IFPA? It might look bad it they pocket that money, but refunding it might be impossible.

I see it as they paid 1$ to be part of IFPA submission and contribute to SCS prize pool. They chose to not play enough after paying the 1$ so it still goes to IFPA. If an event costs 5$ (Current rules, no ifpa money) and someone plays less than 50% do you not give that 5$ to the winners for prize money? They chose to pay for the event and contribute to a prize pool.

If it’s a big deal don’t put the 1$ to IFPA if you notice this and give it to the winner.

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So most tournaments that would lend themselves to participants not playing 50% of the required games are larger expo’s, or leagues that last many weeks/months. This isn’t much of a worry for those ‘one night setup and go’ tournaments.

Ultimately the IFPA will be looking for the number of players tied to our “Player Count” field in our database, which is the total number of players in the results that were submitted. Any over payments will be dealt with between myself and the TD. Refunds won’t be a problem, but I find that most TD’s run more than one event, so we can always apply that overpayment to the next event. I already know of some TD’s that plan on just advancing me $100 at a time, working that balance off, and then reloading whenever it’s appropriate.

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Yes, but for people who host weekly tournaments, your suggestion was to make it into a “league” and just submit the series after 4 or 8 weeks. That puts those one night setup and go tournaments back into the risk category of a person might not play in 50% of the weeks.

So, with this, is the IFPA going to review their stance on certain qualification rules?

Yeah we will be taking a look at the 50% rule for next year. I’d like to get a feeling on how these weeklies are gonna roll and we will use that feedback in our internal discussions.

Like all of our posts at the moment comments aren’t working due to a bug with Wordpress in our back end. Feel free to comment here and/or on our facebook post.

The comment bug is also true for the endorsement fee post no matter what some people may be saying on their private Facebook posts :wink:

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Is there a list of players by Rating on the IFPA page?

You can click the headings on the main rankings page to sort by rating or eff pct.

This is exciting! I love the idea of head to head stats!

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https://www.ifpapinball.com/rankings/overall.php?s=r&t=100

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higher seed by ranking or rating? and will it cost 2$ (on us/canada)?

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$10 for any matches in Taiwan :wink:

taiwan isn’t the same as thailand - and sweden as switzerland