I didn’t remember Zach trying for it at all, or even ever shooting up there. Also, these are two of the best players in the world, their chances of missing are much lower. In all the ‘layman’ games of Deadpool I’ve played/watched, I’ve seen zero intentional shots up that ramp, and at least one miss up the ramp every few games. A majority of the time whoever missed up the ramp won from the points it got them. Misses are also going to be much more likely in multiball, which favors it further as a strategy
Even when Keith was playing though. What’d he do? He hit two extra shots. And those two shots won him his matches. There’s no timing or anything to the multiplier, it’s always available, so there’s no risk/reward or anything in saving your multiplier until big scoring is ready. If you can find that shot, any time you’ve got some good scoring ready, one extra shot will get you an extra 50+ million. I don’t think that’s balanced at all.
How do you feel about the TWD X then? The X builds naturally and just by having the ball hit an inlane switch before one shot you can destroy your opponent. If they don’t do that they lose.
How is it not risk reward on DP to crush through a battle to get the perfect battle bonus with a playfield X? You only have a certain amount of time to get the final kill shot. If you risk getting a playfield X and miss out, that a potential 80 million or so point swing.
TWD X is completely different: it’s a single use shot multiplier that you get virtually nothing from if you miss your shot and hit a meaningless target instead. Very rarely will you get a second chance at it, unless you’re lucky with how your miss bounces around before getting a second flip at it.
Completely agree, and on top of everything else Colin mentioned, you lose it at the end of your ball. TWD X is one of my favorite game features in modern pinball rules.
How is this even an argument/rebuttal? If nobody you play (or yourself) are ever trying to intentionally hit the shot how can you consider it a luck shot because someone randomly bounces into it periodically?
People bounce into valuable shots all the time in pinball. If you have more success hitting the shot with intention than just letting it bounce in then that is a shot of skill.
For instance, I often see lower quality players only make the lock shot on AS from bounce ins vs a direct shot. But you can hit it if you aim and shoot correctly. That can increase PF X during multiball so is that considered a luck shot then?
I agree, just posing a question and that some of the same complaints being made about DP’s multiplier can be made for TWD. I have more than once lost a match of TWD of someone that had ZERO clue the X was available and that the shot they hit was the one they wanted.
That’s pinball. DP’s multiplier is no different IMO. It has different rules, sure, but i think it’s fine. If you start the multiplier and are not making unique combos, it times out pretty quick. It is not one and done like TWD, but it is pretty quick. BTW you can take your time on TWD and set up a shot on either flipper as there is no timer and you need to hit a major shot to cash it in.
I like the variety in these two games’ multiplier rules.
Zach trying for it should be meaningless if this comment is true:
Perhaps I don’t watch as many ‘layman’ games of Deadpool as you do, so I can respect your perspective on it. I saw Keith executing a strategy, intentionally, to beat Zach in a given challenge . . . which he did. Zach had the opportunity to execute that same strategy, or enjoy the “accidental” multipliers (that I hear happen even more often than intentional shots) . . . yet that didn’t happen.
I’m willing to chalk this one up to YMMV. We’ll see at Expo coming up if there’s any matches decided due to accidental playfield multipliers that change the course of a match.
I don’t like that either. All my good games on TWD come because I happen to roll over the X and then make a shot which turns out to be worth good points. I’ve worked much harder (and better) for much less. Sure, when I do pull it off on purpose it’s satisfying, but so often I look up from a game where I didn’t think I do that well and see I got a massive score thanks to some random lucky X shot. Makes the whole game feel worthless when it’s so unbalanced. At least you have to execute /right then/ though. Although it also sucks if you build it up on purpose and then all that is wasted because you’re a quarter inch off.
When Game of Thrones came out people complained about this a ton before the balance was worked on. You’d play two multiballs or modes where you thought you played just the same, and one would be a billion while the other was 3 million or something. But for some reason it’s fine on TWD. Personally I think that even a 3x multiplier is getting a bit overpowered, let alone the crazy X values you can see in TWD or GoT.
I don’t like it in AC/DC or Metallica either. Too little work for the reward, there’s no other valid strategies to play the game, especially for high score (the default way to play games) besides using the multiplier.
I didn’t say they weren’t trying, I said they weren’t getting it. “Intentional shots up the ramp”. Everyone I’ve played with who tried to do it on purpose decided it wasn’t worth bothering with because it’s so unreliable to hit. If I were to take ten shots during a game at the target and ten shots at the shots around it when does it get the multiplier more?
I hate Aerosmith with a passion. I light my locks, and try and try to hit that dumb, badly designed lock shot (not the right size, wrong angle, etc) and never make it. But I miss the center ramp or elevator and it bounces in constantly. My strategy on AS is to light the locks immediately and then ignore it because I know i’m more likely to get the shot off pure luck than via any skill on my part.
To me, Zach played many of those games much ‘better’ than Keith. But Keith won because he hit the multiplier shot once or twice. You could argue that Keith played ‘better’ because he made better use of the multiplier, but I don’t find “made half as many other correct shots but knew to hit the multiplier once” to be better play. Technically taking advantage of a broken game is good play but I don’t think we should be designing games around that
Yeah, and it sucks! The number 1 complaint I hear about DI when I talk to people about it. SIM card hole is too luck based and the reward for ‘making’ the shot is too powerful. A good game is determined by how many SIM cards you fall into.
But Zac, how do you feel about Star Wars and the 40x video mode, or a 40x Death Star kill shot? I know, 20x in competition mode, but it’s still pretty crazy. And full disclosure, I really like Star Wars.
I also really like SW. The multiplier doesn’t annoy me as much there because it’s a constant thing. You always have some multiplier going, and the fact that it can be anything from 2-40x gives it a lot of…resolution to it? It’s not giant jumps. Part of playing SW well is to always be keeping hitting the 3-bank. It’s not some single weird shot, it’s a bank that’s hard to miss, and it incentivizes not trapping up, and playing a bit more on the fly since you know lots of your misses and recovery will hit that bank. You can’t not have it be part of play because you can’t avoid it. The multipliers in other games are designed to be transient things. At best you might extend some a bit, but you can’t play for a long period of time with them going. SW is more about just keeping an eye on it and making sure it’s in a good spot than choosing (or not) to hit a multiplier shot
These two confuse me a bit. You love it on SW but feel that GOT is crazy. Surprised it’s not the opposite. Most of the players that I play with really dislike the SW methodology of having to turn off, move and turn back on your multiplied shot. Game of thrones is as easy (if not easier) to control the PF and shot multipliers. They are always on and easy to extend as well (shoot the red lit shot in time or the ram for PF).
Not saying you are wrong for your opinion. Just surprised you like it is some games but not others. I personally prefer the games with PF/shot multiplier options as it adds a lot to your game strategy and does very often create a big advantage for the player that knows how to exploit those rules.
I have been able to find and execute the shot on all 3 on location in NY. Maybe it’s a matter of set ups I actually sort of like taking that shot to lock balls more then the ramp. It doesn’t return as poorly when you miss and you can hit the center spinner by accident. The ramp goes 3/4 of the way up and comes back down too often for me to like shooting it regularly. It doesn’t feel like a luck based shot to me, just one that is made without intention more when you aren’t actively shooting for it. The video of Keith isnt him getting lucky he went for the target and made the shot when trying for it.
I don’t “love” it on SW. I think both are overpowered, but SW (despite being a higher number) doesn’t make the game scoring nearly as variable since it’s always on and available. What I don’t like about most multipliers is that they’re unbalancable, pretty much by definition. They’re always ‘the’ strategy and overpower any other scoring done without them. Since SW’s multiplier is always there, there’s no periods when you’re not using them, so it doesn’t unbalance the game, besides from maybe the Video Mode (all other big point shots are timed).
Now, if you were to have a game with a constantly fluctuating full playfield (as opposed to individual shots like SW), now that would be interesting…
The multiplier shot gets even harder when the target gets pushed so far towards the top it’s no longer centered for the optimal angle. Pic coming soon.
