Any problem with a finals for Pinball Pinball Pinball?


#1

So one of the downsides of Pinball Pinball Pinball is that the winner can often win by half a game, where they have the same losses as 2nd place but got to play one more game. I was thinking of running a small Flip Frenzy / Pinball Pinball Pinball tourney (probably under 20 players) in April but I wanted a finals component, maybe top 4 in a 3 game finals playoff just to eliminate any sour grapes that might come up from close finishes.

Any problems that anyone could see from an IFPA / Points standpoint or a general, would this be fun or not standpoint?


#2

Some discussion here on adding finals

I think it improves the tournament to have some kind of finals. I’ve played it with 3 different playoff formats now.

  • Head to Head bracket - Top 8 are seeded by qualifying and play best of 3 matches on random games. This is fine but takes a while. Stays in the spirit of the event with 1v1 matches on random games.
  • PAPA groups - Pretty standard. Always feels like a good measure of skill, but is commonly used in lots of tournaments and can take up to a couple hours per round.
  • Final Frenzy - One additional hour of Flip Frenzy matches for the top 8 (or whatever). This one feels like the best choice in the spirit of the format, but there is some variance in the number of games played since it’s a pretty short time window. Not the most accurate measure of skill, but its fun, unique and wraps up fast. HT to @chuckwurt for the suggestion!

#4

Good summary! If time isn’t an issue, which did you like best?

And in the option using another round of FF, can you share the Matchplay link?


#5

This was the first attempt doing on a weeknight as an ongoing weekly event.

Super Flip Frenzy - TD @ChubbyGoomba did a nice job pulling it off
Qualifying (7:30 - 9:30) : https://matchplay.events/live/bvw82
Final Frenzy (9:45 - 10:45) : https://matchplay.events/live/652qq

The location closes at 11pm, so a quick finals is necessary to shoehorn everything into a relatively small time window.

As for personal preference without a time constraint, I don’t know… they all have their benefits. If I want to win, PAPA group finals. If I want to retain the spirit of the format and prioritize the immediacy of “quick wins” in the finals, then Final Frenzy. It stung a little bit to go 12-1 on the night and take 3rd place, but I’m trying to “embrace the randomness”!


#6

Thanks for the info. Going to run this next week.

What size queue did you use for finals?


#7

8 players made the cut. 6 started on games, 2 in the queue. That felt about right, but with varying game lengths there was a variation of 4-6 games played between players in that hour, which is significant.

I think trying to use games of similar play time would help to straighten things out a bit. Taking out the longest and shortest playing machines might be an experiment for next week.


#8

And you can simply use Matchplay stats to tell which are the longest and shortest too.


#9

Thanks Jdelz for sharing the data. Someone only got four games in the finals! which I mean based on the results didn’t factor in, but still. IMHO having the finals is to eliminate the vagaries that separate the top four results from the regular portion.


#10

Fringe TGP question for @pinwizj

Qualifying - 10.2 avg games played
Finals - 5.3 avg games played
Total - 15.5 round up to 16?

Or is each portion rounded separately? So, 10 + 5 for a total of 15 games.

Very negligible difference but I’m sure it will start popping up more.


#11

When I grade events I only round at the end, so I would use 16.

YMMV depending on whether Becker or I approve your results . . . YMMV includes the fact I haven’t approved a result in nearly 3 years :slight_smile:


#12

I’m a personal fan of skill verses luck or randomness. I know in pinbal it can be difficult but I’d like to minimize when possible. If doing the format of a time constrain I would have to agree that choosing machines with similar play times is crucial. It takes a little more input from the TD yet it’s well worth it.