I’ll repeat what I said on a Facebook topic that was similar.
have you talked to a league official or tournament director about the behavior? I have heard things multiple times about someone quitting, complaining about inappropriate behavior and feeling fearful. When I speak to my spouse who is a league official, he k ows nothing of it, meaning the person complains to their friends or on a public forum about the behavior. Talk to the people who are there on that day, not 6 months later in a forum.
Never be afraid to stand up for yourself or someone in your group. When I see someone abuse a machine, I’ll speak up and tell them. Or have someone else in your group speak up if you are uncomfortable saying something.
I think pinball is like a lot of places, people would rather complain and post to forums than talk to people face to face ro resolve it.
She said “agressive outbursts”, not curse words. Please play fair with what was said.
She did not say this, either. You’re making hypotheticals about people instead of discussing the topic. “Focus on criticizing ideas, not people.”
This is also a hypothetical, and you followed up with a second post wondering if this week’s opponents were upset with your negative behavior. Why not ask them?
To put the discussion back on topic, maybe: is there a better potential rule or set of rules that could be written about player behavior? There seem to be at least some actions we agree to be inappropriate. Perhaps the rules should specify those things, so players have more of a defined line. I feel this way more for the sake of other players and spectators, who may see something and wonder if it’s acceptable, then never report it.
I agree this is better practice than bringing up after the fact. If I’m a TD in the situation or if I’m not still actively competing I definitely favor taking this route. If I’m still involved in competing I prefer not to break my focus by getting into behavior discussions.
Sometimes people don’t say anything out of fear of retaliation. I have personally observed a situation where a person (let’s call them A) felt unsafe with the agressive/intimidating behavior of another person (B) toward player A. In good faith, player A reported the behavior which was verging on harassment to a TD. The TD immediately went to player B and had a conversation. I don’t know the details of that conversation, but shortly after, player B came over to player A and started aggressively saying things like “you reported me to (TD)? What, can’t handle your problems on your own?” Player A felt physically unsafe and left in the middle of the tournament without saying anything to the TD. To my knowledge, player B was never yellow carded and was definitely not ejected.
The point is, especially as a newer player when it seems like all the players and TDs are buddies, there is a possibility that you think you will only escalate a situation by reporting it, so you just leave. I think it’s on the TD to clamp down on behavior like that before it gets to such a point, and clearly set expectations every tournament that this kind of behavior isn’t acceptable and won’t be tolerated.
Really? You want to call me out for not staying on topic or refuting someone else logic with my own examples? Why single me out but not the “statistical” comment as well or the constant outlandish examples like sexism and rage titling to the point of machines coming off the ground. I know why and I alluded to it earlier. You should tell the others to stay on topic and “play fair” if you are going to single me out for this especially since it’s been made clear multiple times that we aren’t debating sexism or violent acts. Also, you’ve moderated me before for singling someone out (think it was her too), so why are you now doing it to me?
Hypotheticals - Exactly the same as above. I’m not criticizing anyone. I’m debating what she said. She also stated “If you haven’t seen something in your experience it definitely does’t mean it doesn’t occur.” which is “not playing fair” with what I’m saying thus the response of my experiences not mattering. Just goes to ask why her view of what is seen holds more merit than mine when I can quantitatively prove the opposite (look at the growth numbers)
You really can’t understand why I said that? Think about it for a min, if I made them uncomfortable do you really think they would tell me now after we already talked after the event? Also, if I made them uncomfortable then how comfortable would they feel if I approach them in person and ask them to tell me about it? @YeOldPinPlayer is the league official so I threw that out their. He wouldn’t mention it if they did say something as he wouldn’t want to name names. I’m inviting him to do so if that was the case towards me. Ever heard the phrase, “put your money where your mouth is?”. That is what I’m doing here. I truly do not believe that my actions were offensive to them but some here would say they were. I’m giving him the chance to prove me wrong if that did occur.
I don’t think there is a downside to approaching someone and saying something like, “If my (behavior X) made you uncomfortable I apologize. I don’t intend to make you uncomfortable and I hope my behavior doesn’t make you less likely to play in league with us.”
I’ll do everyone a favor and bow out of this conversation. I’m having some really great ones about this offline in PM and other channels. If anyone wants to chat let’s talk. You know I’m open to share my opinion.
OK I haven’t really participated in this conversation so I’m going to play moderator and call for an end to personal statements and/or attacks no matter who it is coming from. Leaving these here as examples, further ones will be moderated/deleted.
It’s also probable we’re nearing the end of the road here.
It’ll stay open if we can avoid picking on each other.
I think at the end of the day, if TDs make it clear what they expect and what will not fly in their events, that is the best way to handle things to start.
If certain players do not agree, they are free to not play in those events.
Transparency in this area is key, because as we have seen, there are differences in opinions of what consistutes an offense that would lead to a yellow card/ejection.
I wasn’t asking about a specific post. I meant in general. You have posted in this thread repeatedly and with some intensity. Perhaps you’re not mad, and if so, I would ask what makes you so passionate about this topic?
By all accounts including your own you have not had issues with receiving yellow cards. You’re just a guy who gets frustrated or angry with a bad game or unfair drain. I’m pretty sure that sentence could describe almost every poster in this thread (including me).
Personally I’ve been bored of this discussion almost since the beginning. I’m wondering what makes you so invested in it and fired up to defend yourself?
Edit towards Keefer’s post: That wasn’t an attack. It was a question of genuine interest. I can see why it might seem otherwise because of the way this conversation has gone, but I think it became clear awhile ago that the only way this conversation was going to continue to be productive is to figure out where people are coming from and what is making feel and act the way they do. There are far too many instances in this thread of people’s (especially women’s) experiences being dismissed or ignored or explained away. I was trying to extend him the courtesy of having his experience heard.
This is what happens when you get all types of people interested in a common hobby. Some amount of tolerance on all sides is necessary for things to work. If you’re uncomfortable with something, communicate your feelings so others are at least aware and can make changes.
