Yellow Cards, behavior and penalties


#352

***Edit. Not “calling out” any particular person here. Just a generalization I see.

Because then you wouldn’t have something to run to the forums with…

This is part of the problem. People have become so socially inept that they are “offended” by silly things and yet wont speak up when it happens. Then they go online and talk about how things should be done.

Go ahead, call me out for this. Anyone that plays in Austin knows that if i see something I call it out! Pretty sure that is why I’m a bit of an outcast here as I tend to speak my mind IN PERSON vs going to the forums about it.


#353

Alright, fine. Bring up my entire past and you’ll see I’ve got a lot of shit in there. I’m not a perfect human being. I’m not a good human being.

But in my heart of hearts, I’m trying to improve. After I should have been ejected from a location, I looked at myself deep in the mirror and strove to change. And you know what? I want to. I want to change for the community first and my own personal reasons second.

I took a deep look into WHY I act the way I do and how to reform it. The statement I made is one of the top reasons why I act the way I do and it is to not offend anyone for any reason at all, even if it comes to my own emotional and mental decline. I wanted to get this thing off my chest for a while, because the societal pressure to “have fun but not that way” definitely has spoiled Buffalo, Fight Clubs, PPL seasons… you name it. And I’m not talking about any reasons you or anyone mentioned here in that. Those are unacceptable behaviors and I see them now as such. But if I do find positive ways like little celebrations or bursts of happiness, they get chewed up all the same. Maybe they come off as cocky, but I really haven’t been good at anything and I find it hard to see myself as anything but an average pinball player with regards to the talent in Pittsburgh.

I also have learned to better figure myself out emotionally and mentally - and that in itself is a trying process. I’m still going through new situations and new experiences that I’m unfamiliar with, and as they happen I’m seeing how to improve how I acted to them. I never played 2 finals. I know I acted poorly going into Cleveland main. I now have gone through the steps and figured out how to deal with mental, physical, and emotional fatigue after slogging for 8 hours on your A game and needing to continue afterwards.

I know it won’t be overnight, or quickly - I’m really trying to reverse things that have held around since my childhood where I’d be down on myself in baseball for striking out because I know I’d have to relive it after the game. But honestly, I’m giving it a go and past demons be damned, I’ll stumble my way forward at some point.


#354

This is great to read and hear. You are trying to improve and do better. Just make sure what you do is for YOU and not for someone else.

With some of what I read it sounds like you are trying to conform to the social norm at your location. Different isn’t always bad so don’t lose the part that makes you YOU in the process. Best of luck with your reform and endeavors.


#355

Speaking from experience… new female players entering the pinball competition scene are easier to walk away when they witness a lot of aggressive behavior. Game abuse, throwing objects, screaming outbursts more specifically. New players in general will not continue to play because of that. Maybe that kind of behavior is funny to some and acceptable in bars/ home collections but it should not be encouraged in tournament settings. In other competitions yellow and red cards are given out. It is standard once a sport reaches a level. In addition, underage players should not be able to see those kind of actions either. Slamming games and screaming is not sportsmanlike and it’s encouraging new players coming up to act similarly without consequence.


#356

I would also like people to not dogpile me and call me a hypocrite when you don’t know the situation. I’m not calling anything mentioned here FUN. I’m talking about being called out for the reasons you love the dancing in chairkick.gif. The excited players when they finally start Multiball. Adam singing Green Day while waiting for a tilt because he saw my Green Cat shirt.


#357

Don’t be too hard on yourself - there’s nothing wrong with passion, and I’ve never seen you act inappropriately. Just because you made one person uncomfortable doesn’t necessarily mean you’re a horrible person. Personality conflicts will always occur when you get this many disparate people in one hobby. Your positive attitude is commendable.


#358

Where are these statistics? I really doubt a reputable non-bias company has done research on the effects of this by gender with people playing pinball. I’m sure in some areas it’s a major issue but in others not so much. For instance and just going off personal experience. Adam did this at BCO and their were at least a dozen women present. Not one looked offended and quite honestly most everyone (including the women) laughed about it. Maybe in Texas we have a thicker skin.

I’ll add. Here is a statistic.
At the Deadpool launch party their were 6 women in the event out of 17 total. In Austin these women have all seen at least one person throwing a tempura tantrum at events (I wont name names again as reasoned before). These women are all new to pinball and continue to come to events. That’s pretty good support that it’s not that much of a detractor (to me at least).

I do know of one Women that has stopped coming out and that was due to a harassment situation. I’ve yet to see or hear of one not coming due to the actions discussed here.


#359

“Statistically” would mean there are actual statistics behind this statement… can we see them?


#360

Admittedly to myself, months before this, I have done terrible things and I know they are. That’s the reason behind this.


#361

@ScoutPilgrim My comment above was not to be seen as a character attack. It was specific instances that were evidence towards what is not cool. I have done my fair share of talking to games, myself, and yelling at games. And when I made the mistake of doing something out of line within the pinball community I sought people out to apologize in person. It is a real process to better yourself when tensions are high. I know that most that anyone. The key is to work on your mental health so problems from home/work don’t bleed into creating a non-fun vibe at your hobby. I know your heart is in a good place so I trusted that you could handle some constructive criticism and not take it the wrong way. I believe you can do it and change before things become second nature. I also trust that you will be more aware to even tell other players when they step out of line. The purpose is for everyone to make an effort and to not get side-tracked. Pinball is supposed to be fun for everyone.


#362

I am not trying to argue with you. You can not agree with me. I have no problem with it. :slight_smile: I’ve been in this hobby for 8 years and seen many new players drop off and when I asked them why they gave me solid reasons. Not every pinball scene is the same and not every pinball competitor is the same. If you haven’t seen something in your experience it definitely does’t mean it doesn’t occur.


#363

Got it, you don’t have any and threw that out their. I’m not trying to argue with you either but if you are going to say “statistically” you need to have them. Otherwise you are not being real honest as your personal experiences really don’t qualify for “statistically” as you could be an outlier in the enviroment. Statistics are supposed to be data driven an unbiased. That’s all I’m getting at.

I’ve been in the hobby just as long. I’ve seen plenty players come and go for all different kinds of reasons. The biggest ones tend to be them not feeling as though they are capably of winning.

My wife used to come with me. She stopped as she felt she had to baby sit people because they were constantly walking off and not staying focused. She also stopped because rules were always changing after the fact and things never went on time.

I brought a friend once and someone offered him weed. Never came back as we don’t do drugs.

This is just a small bit of proof that their are A LOT of reasons why people leave the hobby. Often times people also make up excuses as well so it’s hard to see what the true reason is.


#364

When you get enough anecdata together, I think it needs to be paid attention to. Ask any of the competitive female players who are involved with a local Women’s scene and I suspect that they can each cite an example of a time they’ve had a conversation with other female players about why they don’t come out to open tournaments which involves the behaviour of the participants as a reason.

If I had time, I would go through the Pinball Women Ottawa’s stats and show you the level of participation in open tournaments vs league play. Having had the conversations I reference above, I know firsthand that there are at least three women from our league who have been to events where aggressive outbursts and sexist comments haven’t been addressed and they just don’t care to spend their time in those environments.

Please listen to the women of this hobby when we say that this is a real problem.


#365

Before my phone dies, I would like to reiterate:

I was Low key threatened with violence for singing and having fun. That’s my point; I get shit for being positive and then negativity creeps in.

I’m afraid people will feel more justified with that behavior in the future.


#366

In NYC the passionate women players swear, get agitated, get excited, and want to win just like the male players do. Just ask them.

Especially the two on my bar league team!


#367

I don’t think that really has anything to do with what @MCS wrote, though? She didn’t say people are leaving because of “swearing” or “getting agitated”- she said people are leaving because “aggressive outbursts and sexist comments haven’t been addressed”. So this feels a little like a straw man.


#368

I don’t think anything @MCS said excludes this from being true. What she said is also true and worth hearing. Further debate in this direction might be more appropriate for a different topic.


#369

You shouldn’t get called out for positivity, unless it creates a distraction to other competitors. I got called out for shouting too much while playing TNA … and it was all highly positive shouting, I just lost track of the fact that others around me were invested and involved.

Being threatened is not okay, no matter what you did.


#370

Of course, if you add “sexist” in their that would be obvious. But are female players really that sensitive to a person using a curse word? The women I talk to at my league don’t seem to be that sensitive. Shoot, a couple of them are just as bad, if not worse than the men with cursing and rage tilting/slapping games.

So, is my experience not valid then because it doesn’t support your beliefs of what is occurring? I provided data that supports the growth in pinball as it stands today. Remember 35% of our most recent local event were Women of which at this time last year it was maybe 10% for like minded events.

Where is Josh with his data showing the growth of Women in the sport. He showed trending in a thread once to show the exponential growth of which everyone celebrated. But now that data isn’t quite as beneficial to the support of the topic at hand so I guess we shouldn’t use it. If this was such a major turnoff for Women, in general, joining pinball why is the participation of Women in events blowing up?

Please don’t bring in sexism again. That is not in debate in this conversation and yet it keeps getting brought up.

Men and women should not be treated different (remember, equal rights). Taking sexism off the table as their is no dispute their, what makes the items in actual debate here more offensive to a woman than a man? I’m honestly interested in that as I don’t see the difference in any of my hobbies of which none are gender specific.

P.S. - I showed my wife this thread last night. She laughed about how much of a fuss a bunch of dorks (her words) are making of this. Trust me, she LOVES to disagree with me and dispute my logic so it’s not just her picking my side :wink:


#371

I had, yet another bad night on Tuesday during league. I said a choice word once on jackbot and stormed off after my MM game to go cool off. Their were two women in my group. Also, as part of that same night I spent a great deal of time explaining rules to one of them on a game she wasn’t familiar with.

At the end both shook my hand and said it was a pleasure playing. Maybe they didn’t feel comfortable being honest so @YeOldPinPlayer if something was said, feel free to advise. I will apologize in person if so. If what is debated here is true then my actions would have offended them (I’m guessing).