Have I got this right, a 3 ball flip frenzy is TGP * 1/2 and a one ball FF is TGP * 1/3? This would skew flip frenzies into one ball tournaments. I wouldn’t run a 3 ball if this were the case and WPPRs were important to the competitors. I’d run 3 one ball tournaments.
What’s the thinking behind halving the flip frenzy TGP? 50 game FF is the same value as a 13 game 4 player matchplay. Or maybe I am missing something.
FF nerf makes sense because it’s a garbage competitive format. I played in one last week that was similar to every FF I’ve ever played in.
If you want to argue it’s a fun format, that’s fine, but as a competition, it’s a joke.
It’s unfortunate that there will be less wpprs available in my area now, but I think the new rules are completely warranted.
it was often said that FF should have a final component to avoid situation like that. It is a pretty rare format overall, as anything variety nice. i do not want to see 99% of the tournament being the same format all the time, that would be pretty boring.
I always attach a finals format to it because of this but the format is still flawed for sure, awesome for fun tournaments or to bring in casuals thou.
I don’t know about rare… fourth most popular format on Match Play over the past 3 months. Basically the same popularity as head-to-head knockout tournaments:
I haven’t read even 5 of the previous 465 posts on this thread. But here is the mistake by the nerfing of Flip Frenzys: It’s a lazy move. L-A-Z-Y. Lazy, because you have taken a match play format that is popular, and not tried to find a solution to make it more consistent and eliminate some concerns like not playing the best players, or not playing as many games, etc. If the state/province/district reps voted on this to be nerfed because your reason was “I don’t like it”, that’s lame. I personally hate pingolf, but it’s fair the way it’s scored by IFPA. Whether you like it or not is not a factor. Is it match-play…yes. Is it direct competition…yes.
Doing straight match play at an arcade means all but one group is waiting for the last group to be done…and therefore machines not being played (quarters not being fed). Time wasted. Revenue not earned.
There is a possible solution to the Flip Frenzy format (which again is direct match play format) to make it more aligned with IFPA wishes.
If you think tanking is an issue in FF’s, I’ll show you a comparable specific (embarrassing) issue in each other format just as concerning. The point is, you make rules and enforce them. NO format is perfect, since we govern and officiate our own tourneys (95+% of the time, wouldn’t you agree?).
I’m not going to type forever…I’m sure there will be comments that follow.
Why flip frenzy’s are being nerfed and not tweaked, is again…lazy. Promote playing more pinball, not less. I guess it’s only sit & wait (for groups to be done, or in cue) now.
any FF without a playoff is a mistake. Period. A playoff makes the best play the best. If you saw someone concede on one ball, tell the TD…that’s on you. Same for any conceding. Speak up. It’s pinball, we govern ourselves.
I like requiring a finals piece for FF to count.
What about these other issues:
Players only ever playing a specific group of other players and not necessarily having to beat anyone else doing well, to qualify for finals.
Drawing the same 3-4 games when there are a dozen or more games available, and you’re playing 20-25 matches.
Would be interested to see the stats from Newport. That’s a massive lineup that should have had varied games choices for the players, or at least I would hope.
29 players. 3 hours. 18 working (tourney) games by finish after a few went down.
avg. 24.9 games played (so the math says you are going to play the same machine a few times). With average of 24.9 games played, you aren’t going to play everyone…but do you in straight match play?
Person with fewest is 20 games. Nerfing by half seems too much.
Top 4 made playoffs. Who got robbed here?
This tournament looks fine. Had this not had a finals, it would’ve been bad. The top 4 qualifiers rarely if ever played each other.
Imo this format should only count if it has a finals. That helps with some issues it can have.
100% agreed. All FF’s need a playoffs or they are not good.
Is that even a thing?
This POV is a pet peeve of mine. Almost every time I see someone advocating for a tournament format on the grounds of “less waiting and more pinball”, it really means “less waiting and more pinball for the very best players”. Take MMP for instance – it does what it claims if all players are evenly matched, but that really isn’t often the case. Frequently I’ve seen a single player blow up one or more games while the rest of the group waits, their machines sitting idle.
Isn’t the total coin drop for a straight match play tournament determined by the number of participants? A wait between rounds does nothing but increase coin drop, because now waiting players are encouraged to spend money beyond the pre-determined tournament coin drop by practicing between rounds. With the MMP example above, generally three machines sit idle while someone like Lonnie blows up a fourth, meaning others in the venue are prevented from spending money on the “idle” games.
I promise you it does not work this way. FF is WAY WAY WAY better for coin drop. By a lot. Like a ton. Miles away more. Did I mention FF is better for coin drop? It is.
Oh, I strongly agree that FF is great for coin drop. You’ll note my comment was specifically about straight match play (and multi-matchplay).
I’d like to point out that I totally agree with everything you’ve said (except for the pingolf shade) but I just can’t be bothered to argue with anyone about it, so thanks for speaking up.
Also, to address something you mentioned with an example… a league that meets for 6 weeks will have a maximum of 18 possible opponents over the course of the season. 10 weeks is 30 possible opponents. For a league with 50-60 people, that means only a small portion of the group will ever compete head to head prior to finals.
I think we’re back to this note:
Timing issue for all things TGP. A tournament that takes 2-3 hours is worth less than a 6-7 hour event.
FFs are popular because there’s lot more bad players than good ones and it gives those players a better chance to win.
Flip frenzy is a novelty format, not a real competitive format. Great for fun, great for people Who enjoy it, silly to use in actual ranking formulas and the new formula recognizes that.
I’m curious if the “Group Match Play” numbers are counting the finals of other formats as a separate tournament similar to how it’s handled in MPE. That’s a great chart, by the way!
To me, the biggest issue with FF isn’t the tanking/conceding: it’s the fundamental aspects of the format that don’t make it a good measure of who is playing the best during the event.
FF is a great format for social/frenetic play. Terrible format for competition that would have an influence on world, country, or state/province rankings.
Teolis right now . . .
