WPPR suspension: freezing vs. decaying points

Following up on this, and asking @pinwizj , I am honestly very curious as to why the whole WPPR system was not just frozen in plaze including the decay? Is it technical reasons for making it very difficult to freeze the decay of points, or more like a “it will even out”?


Freezing in place requires effort to code into place, which falls on someone other than myself for the workload. The unknown-ness of this hiatus with respect to length also has impacted my personal opinion of how we should handle this. If we knew ahead of time we were skipping a full year of activity, then it’s possible I would feel different.

Personally, I think when we’re talking about who the best players are ‘now’ . . . events that are 2 years still represent the skill and achievements of those players 2 years ago. I have full confidence that once we get back into sanctioning events that things will in fact get to a place where WPPR is back to doing a quality job of highlighting who the best players are in the sport.

I’ve tossed around in my head the possibility of changing the decay scale from 100-75-50-0 to 100-75-50-25-0 as sort of a ‘compromise’, allowing us 4 years of data to capture the previous 3 years of sanctioned activity (this again assumes that we’re looking at ~1 year on this whole COVID mess). That change wouldn’t be implemented until 1/1/21, so I’m still giving it some thought.


Thanks for the reply, and of course noone could have predicted how f****ed up this turned. I suspected there was some technical work required and not just a simple big red “freeze decay” button haha =)

I think the IFPA needs to issue a WPPR stimulus package. It should award each player 10 to 750 points and the points given should be inversely proportional to your current ranking. Raymond should get 10 points and anyone ranked over 2225 should be awarded 750 points.

Just a rough draft. I’m open to minor adjustments.


Also im sure @raydaypinball would step up as a an act of courtesty to help program in those changes :nerd_face:

well if we start next year with event pop caps (say to be set at the US capped event pop at lowest state level (Lower 48)) ?
min number of players for an event to get an Major boost?
Will there be changes for 2021 in general?
USA only restart?
limited travel changes?

Stuff to cover an slow and varying state by state rampup?

ALL leagues (NO 2020 carry over) ?

Now things like

  1. Stern Pro Circuit (hold over missed) (POINTS SHOULD NOT COUNT to state it’s held in for that years North American Championship)
  2. Stern Pro Circuit (event qualifying)
  3. North American Championship Series (may need to split Canada / usa)
  4. North American Championship Series (year reset (don’t take stuff from 2020 into 2021))
  5. North American Championship Series (maybe state Championship only)
  6. North American Championship Series (kill 2020?)
  7. North American Championship Series after state finales finales (POINTS SHOULD NOT COUNT to state it’s held in for that years North American Championship)
  8. power
  9. POWER 100 (hold over missed) (POINTS SHOULD NOT COUNT to state it’s held in for that years North American Championship)
  10. World Championship (hold over missed) (POINTS SHOULD NOT COUNT to state it’s held in for that years North American Championship)

Joe - I will be thinking long and hard about all of these things, and will make an announcement once we have finalized our decisions.


well from the programing stand point if you are going to add stuff it may be nice to make other changes at the same time to flex.
things like fake states / metro areas / state zones if an event must have an state.

Some states even have there cut up zones done.


It’s very likely that some locations will be unable to have a “full value” event for some time since some rules now indicate that when group gatherings are allowed to resume, there may be caps of 50 or 100 on them, inclusive of event staff. If you’re in a cap-50 locale, and assuming a couple of non-players like maybe the manager and one staff person are there, you’re now at 48 players max or 75%. And what of “majors”? The only major with fewer than several hundred players now is IFPA. The size thing is several hundred different moving targets - - one for each county in several US states (58 in CA alone - - each county has it’s own status), one or more for each other country, depending on how they divide into regions for such things. Gordion Knot anyone?

If say some tribal casinos with event space wants to have an pinball event that should be it’s own state as they can set rules that can be more open then the rest of the state.

maybe each state is on it’s own with max people set at the lowest of the big mero areas. With some flex like east st Louis is part the st louis metro and does not count for the rest of IL like Chicago But does count as part the MO state.
@pinwizj My old metro area idea is kind of thing that maybe the ifpa can do not let big states with cut down to much and to push the idea of less big travel.

I doubt any real events will happen on a mass scale for at least another 6 - 9 months, that is the unfortunate reality between the restrictions in States and Provinces for COVID and people’s comfort level in participating again in these kinds of events. So with 1 1/2 years of decay status until IFPA can open events again and half of the circuit event probably being cancelled for 2021. The IFPA will have some tough decisions for 2021.

I think some arcade back east is suing their state since the casinos there are open to touch all the machines they want and the arcades can’t.

I think the smaller events that see the same 8-20sh people 90% of the time may be ok with starting up.
But maybe not leagues with 25-30+ people in homes / big shows like events not right away.

and an 4-6 months of small events only then open full size may force an split session state qualifying and in that case NO 2020 hold over unplayed events should count for qualifying for state.

This is happening in Colorado. There was hype for a class action lawsuit, but I’m not sure how far it has gone.

Does Williams still make slot machines? Maybe they can put in a good word.

We need a new pinball hero to prove pinball is no different than gambling machines? What a strange world.


Today, WMS gaming is a brand of Scientific Games , along with SG, Bally and Shuffle Master.

Trying to rejig locations so they fall in any particular state to bypass another states laws is ridiculous - if the aim is just to run a larger tournament for WPPRs.

I cannot see how the IFPA can sanction ANY tournaments until ALL of the major countries have relaxed laws enough to be able hold large tournaments.

The I stands for International - not Interstate :wink:

I think any reworking of the decay of points is likely to be flawed. If (as @pinwizj) suggested a 4 year data capture, the rankings hold even less validity indicating ‘the best player NOW’ It would also likely make the movement of people up and down the rankings more sluggish.

Let’s face it, this isn’t really anything anyone could have predicted and everyone is just trying to get by in all aspects of their work and life.
What it does do is give us a really good chance to look at potential changes that could be made to decay rate/ ranking system in general/ tournament values/ etc. etc. and possibly run simulations while we are on a break.

Personally I would expect the lockdown restrictions in some format to last for at least another 12 months (the last to be removed would be large gatherings indoors), wiping out most of 2021 for WPPR points.

During this time rankings would have decayed significantly and mean when comps do start they would effectively be more valuable from a ranking perspective. It would mean that players would have more of a chance to climb the rankings quicker by playing more thus encouraging more players to play competitive pinball (one of IFPAs goals if I’m not mistaken?)

It would probably be best to put this into a new thread if it was deemed worthy of discussion.


Letting it stay as-is, decay without new tournaments submitted, is the best thing to do the way I see it. Keep it simple. As long as it opens, when the day finally comes, for everyone around the globe at the same time.

The road may be open for advancement for the eager ones. But that rush to come out and play will only benefit the events.

As for qualification to the (next-next) IFPA WC. Well, seems to be a fair run for everyone regardless.

As for tournaments right now in parts of the world where it is deemed safe (acceptable) to meet-up and play. I can only laugh about that. The IFPA is not preventing anyone from having pinbal events. The smaller weeklies and monthlies are ongoing as we speak around here.

1 Like

and pay $2-3 an game to cover the cleaning crew?

Cleveland Sept.10, 2017. Lots of points about to drop to zero!

I feel fortunate that I did well in Jan. 2020 at INDISC. That should carry me for a while… :smile: