WPPR formula change to v5.3 for 2017!


Bon Appetit


Nice changes, makes sense to me, especially the 50% of games component. If someone just happens to play a game and register but isn’t really involved in qualifying (aka the casual player that plays literally one time and moves on with their life), it doesn’t really count.

The selfie tournament component will certainly get watered down, but that makes sense too since no one is actually managing or vetting the scores directly. I foresee larger finals formats in 2017 for selfie tournaments.


Is there a limit to the number of authorized scorekeepers/TD for selfie leagues? Can someone running a selfie league just make everyone in the league an authorized scorekeeper?

“Certain formats (Selfie Leagues, TOPS Tournaments, etc) rely on players submitting their own results without the verification of a TD or authorized scorekeeper on site.”


There’s no limit to the number of authorized scorekeepers for any tournament, whether it be PAPA, INDISC, or any particular selfie league. Like all those events with volunteer scorekeepers, players won’t be allowed to record their own scores.

For selfie leagues in particular, you better have ‘staff’ on hand to record ALL SCORES if you want any hope of having that qualifying data count towards TGP. Any attempts at ‘buddy scorekeeping’ is simply a “NO” from me.

You’re welcome to full on organize specific hours of every day for qualifying to occur, with a solid schedule of scorekeeping volunteers to make that happen. If I personally see that as legit I may allow that to be counted, but it’s completely at my discretion, and highly depends on the mood I’m in . . . which highly depends on how well my kids are sleeping :slight_smile:


And whether your initials are FLR





I understand ‘buddy scorekeeping’ being a no-no, but what about the following scenario?

I run a private pinball clubhouse. Just about all of the time it’s open, I’m there. So I can record scores for everyone else. I’m sure you won’t have a problem so far, but correct me if I’m wrong.

Can I designate another person to record my scores? This person might be different each day, or the same, or some combination. Or is this too close to the buddy thing that you want to eliminate?


Yep . . . this is akin to any other Herb (cough, sorry Bowen, I mean Best Game Qualifying) style event, with open qualifying. At that point there would be no need to take pictures, so it moves away from being a ‘selfie’ league.

The important thing to note is that if ANY score included in the qualified standings isn’t a score that is directly recorded by the TD (or designated official/scorekeeper), it renders all of that qualifying data as ‘unverified’.

I’m holding the people on Tilt Forums to a higher standard than people on Pinside . . . so the rule is, “Don’t be an asshole” :slight_smile:


Any attempts at ‘buddy scorekeeping’ is simply a “NO” from me.

What about leagues and other tournaments where you have direct match play and you report your group results into an app like Matchplay? That could be considered buddy scorekeeping or reporting your own results. Just trying to figure out where the line is drawn.


I asked:

  1. Can I designate another person to record my scores?
  2. Or is this too close to the buddy thing that you want to eliminate?

You answered:


I know I have the context of the rest of what you wrote to help me figure out which question the “Yep” was answering, but can you confirm for the record that it’s #1?


Pinburgh is fine :slight_smile:

Match play where everyone is at the same event at the same time isn’t the issue here.

The spirit of this rule is for Best Game Qualifying events, with an open ended qualifying structure that gives the flexibility of players to qualify whenever they want, at their convenience, with the lack of any official there to actually enforce any rules (malfunctions, stuck balls, etc), or record any scores.


It’s fine.

For example at Pinball Expo if Trent is qualifying, he’ll get another volunteer to record his scores, while he is able to record the scores of anyone else.


The other reason that match play events or leagues (where groups of players are “directly” competing) aren’t “unverified” is because the self-monitoring of the game among the group of players only directly impacts the qualifying scores of the people in that foursome (if someone in my foursome takes first place on the game, I’m getting no better than 2nd, etc.) There is incentive for each player to monitor the others, because it’s to their benefit to ensure rules aren’t broken.

This differs from “buddy” scoring in a best-game qualifying situation with no active scorekeeper/official oversight, because the twosome/threesome/foursome playing together have no incentive to prevent the other players from taking advantage of rules, etc. Their scores are compared across players other than the group that is buddy scoring.


It looks like all of these changes affect events starting in 2017. Ie, there are no “formula changes” which would change 2016 or prior year results retroactively. Is that correct?



Correct :slight_smile:


This thread is way too peaceful. We’re never going to hit 250 comments at this rate.


Love all the attention pin golf is getting here (it almost makes up for not being able to run lowest score eliminated playoffs anymore :slight_smile: ) and hopefully we can set up a tour event here in SoCal.

One question, do I have to use the IFPA scoring system in its strict form for my league? I changed the falloff for our current season from the linear 20/40/60/80% to a slightly curved 10/25/50/75% setup to compress the scores a bit more and provide a little relief for the less serious players who were getting a lot of 9s and 10s.


Yeah that’s fine. Ultimately you end up costing yourself PGM value since you’re curve makes for lower scores for everyone. We’ll likely approve any structure that is the IFPA curve or better for lower scores, but wouldn’t approve something that was 50/60/70/80/90%.


From the IFPA Tour page:

It requires organizers to have all their data available on a website for the IFPA to review

Between now and January 1 2017: If there’s any data I can add to tournament pages to make your life easier, let me know. Currently pingolf tournaments look like this: https://matchplay.events/live/nqyw (click on Scorecards and Standings tabs for everything).

If I can do something that lets you do less manual work I’m happy to help. I don’t want the little baby Sharpes missing quality time with their dad because he’s sitting in the basement with a calculator adding numbers by hand.

I can calculate whatever you want or I can do something as simple as provide a CSV file for easy Excel import.