What happened at the end of the women's NW finals?

Inquiring minds want to know.


Per Karl’s Neverdrains …

Nycole Hyatt - 1st
Melissa Schwegel - 2nd
Zoe Vrabel - 3rd
Meg Griffin - 4th

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What was with all the drama tho?

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Sexism. Sexism is what happened.

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Here is the stream - https://www.twitch.tv/videos/170245705.

There must be a lot more to the story since no obvious evidence of sexism was captured in the stream.

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Are we going to uncover the conspiracy?

I think a typewriter and a long scroll of paper would be needed for the whole story.


It was upsetting seeing the details of private player-TD conversations being broadcast on the stream. That should never happen, and is highly disrespectful to the players involved. I hope something like that never happens again.

We can hope something like that never happens again but if we don’t know what exactly happened, how will we learn from our mistakes? A little specificity would go along way here so if anyone can clarify the issue, that would be great!

The fact that the TD went on stream to tell all the viewers the contents of a private player-TD conversation is what I am referring to. That happened on this stream, and should not have.

[speculation deleted]

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I remember it a bit differently but I’ll go back and watch it with that perspective in mind. Thanks for providing a starting point!

That wasn’t the TD, just a commentator.

edit: apparently I have this wrong and so my entire reply is irrelevant.

The commentator on the left was also the tournament director. He said that when he got up from his chair.

[speculation deleted]

I think we need to wait to hear from the players involved.

Yep. Just gonna strike the above. Just a distraction now.

So if Elwin or Bowen were doing this, you would assume he didn’t know about the buttons?

If you’re asking me personally, I know that Bowen and Elwin probably played this game when it was new, so no, I would assume something was wrong.

But I think it’s perfectly reasonable that a player could make the finals at NWPC and not know about those buttons.

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I think it is reasonable that a player could make the finals and not know about the buttons as well. I also think it is reasonable to not make any assumptions about what a player does or doesn’t know until you know something about the situation, especially given that the player in question has been playing competitively longer than one of the commentators had been alive (EDIT: apparently this other player is actually way older than I originally thought.)

One of the things that is noteworthy here is that it is easy to say “Oh in this individual situation it makes sense” or “Oh nothing was meant by it when we said X”, but when you look at the patterns of who says what about who across streams over time, there is a long long trend of people assuming that the female players are less knowledgeable and less competent than the male players. While any individual broadcast commentator or event spectator may not have meant anything by their individual remark, we all have unconscious bias, and if you hang around the scene long enough it is very plain to see. That context needs to be taken into account.


I had something similar happen to me in the C finals of Pinburgh 2 years ago. I was playing on Stern Trek. I had horrible nothing balls on ball 1 and ball 2. I was able to get 3 torpedoes on ball 2 with all my flailing. If I’m remembering correctly, I had 4 hits to drop the drop target for vengeance. So the torpedoes were not going to get me there. I was saving them to either use once I had enough hits to bring the drop target down or save them for vengeance multiball.

Anyway, my ball 3 was also pretty much a house ball and I never ended up using the torpedoes. I ended the game with under 4 million. I was pretty disappointed with my play. After getting a 0 on that game and this eliminating me from advancing, this guy that was watching comes up to me and says, “You had 3 torpedoes. Just so you know, you can use those to drop down the drop target so you can get multiball.” I was like, “Umm. I KNOW that.” He responded by saying, “Well, you lose them after each ball, so you should use them.” I said, “Actually, they carry over ball to ball” and then walked off. I was FURIOUS. It’s extremely embarrassing and rude to assume someone doesn’t know how to play a game when they are in the fucking finals of a large tournament.

I can’t imagine how the women feel when this probably happens to them 10x more than men get it. On top of that it’s broadcast for the world to see which makes it exponentially worse.