Tournament ruling: Unexpected ball save- the auto plunger edition

General
1

Situation: SCS Quarterfinals; 1v1 on BSD; player one ball 2

I get called over by player two. Player one is trapped up waiting for me. Player two states that while attempting to make a save with a big move as his ball drained, player one took 2 dangers and somehow knocked a ball out of the trough which was promptly auto-plunged back in to play. Player two denied any ball save graphic or indicator. Player one’s response is that he didn’t know what happened.

I’ve never personally seen a ball nudged into the shooter lane but I suppose it’s possible. And BSD does have a relatively shallow trough. However, as this was a “he said, he said” situation (and probably ‘cause BSD) I ruled an unexpected ball save and said play-on, while watching the rest of the match to make sure it didn’t happen again.

Thoughts?

And for further discussion: let’s imagine that player one somehow knew this was possible (and I somehow knew that he knew it was possible) and was doing it on purpose like a death save. Would the same burden of proof as for a death save apply?

2

BSD does have the mist ball and it can get confused about the ball state.
also was the game set to ball save time 0?? as doing that can lead to lots of other bugs.

As for proof as for a death save?

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3

I don’t believe so, but I will check.

4

soren talked the dangers of an to soon end of ball with this game

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5

My understanding was that all this happened in single ball play.

6

So … what happened to the other ball, the one originally in play?

7

It drained, then a ball appeared in the shooter lane and was auto-plunged into play.

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8

Sorry, post original post edited for clarity.

9

Ok, if a fresh ball comes from the shooter lane without any ball save or normal game behavior, it’s a pass-through and should be drained. That’s my opinion anyway.

If it’s another random ball that was freed, then it should also be drained. See the rule about Avatarring :wink:

10

My guess is the player shook loose the staged Mist ball

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11

I thought that would only apply to a ball that was sitting in the shooter lane, not a ball on an already validated playfield.

12

In single ball play if the ball drains and the player agrees that happened but was given another ball in the shooter lane with no obvious ball save then I’d say the ball should be drained and only if the ball comes back into play should they be allowed to continue playing it.

And with auto plungers then I guess that would apply to the trapped up ball that likely validated the playfield.

13

To my understanding , that rule does not apply to a ball that is auto-plunged.

14

likely as the drain rule says drain it right away (no adding switches to validate it)
But does not cover an auto shooter and then getting validated after the auto shooter.

15

That would be my guess, although I wouldn’t assume it was intentionally done. The left gate is lifted by a spring. Not a solid locking mechanism.

With ball count concerns on BSD, balls left in the pockets need to be considered. I’d guess both pockets in this case were empty.

16

Except the opponent specifically said the ball appeared in the trough and was autoplunged.I could not rule it as a Mist malfunction with this report.

I mean, I guess I could but that seems like too much assuming.

17

Really wondering if the player had the ball kick out of the Renfield scoop sometime before their drain. iirc there is an uncelebrated ballsave there.

18

well the game may of been confused about where ball are at trough, lock, and mist?
Now was ball save time set to 0?

19

Ball save time was set to factory.

35 sec

20

that is a1 ball time and not a2 ball saver.