This weekend I learned a bunch of new edge cases (I think I will start another thread for that), but one of them seems to be on F2K, if you tilt before qualifying the playfield it does not advance to next player. I assume this is tilt through protection.
In the tournament, the TD determined it was a tilt and he opened the machine, hit a 10 point switch and drained the ball. This was a fine ruling, and the one the player expected, but I am not sure if follows the unified rules.
Now my understanding is that the “correct” process is the take of the glass, drain the ball and if it still doesn’t advance there is no loss of ball because you proved it was a playfield qualify and not a switch issue.
So here is the question, if the ball looks like it is going in the wrong rollover lane, can I tilt on purpose to get a new plung? Legal, or DQ under the don’t be a jerk clause.
This is true of all classic Sterns. Tilting with 0 points scored will not end the ball in play.
Magic is another one where you can tilt if you’re not getting the preferred lane off the plunge.
As for the ruling, I’ve heard of it being handled different ways. I’ve always thought of it as “don’t be a jerk”, but that leaves too much room for interpretation. Testing the tilt while the ball is still in the shooter lane, etc.
PAPA verbiage is pretty clear about this.
Any player who deliberately tilts or slam tilts a machine in order to derive some benefit to his or her own play, or the play of others, under these rules, will receive a score of zero. Repeated offenses may result in ejection from the tournament.
Wow, that is clearer than I knew. Guess I need to reread the rules. I know people talked about executing the mustang tilt in the past…
They gray area is determining if a tilt was deliberate or not and what benefit, if any, the player was trying to achieve.
Say you’re trying to save a house ball on Addams with a significant move, knowing you have nothing to lose and a GREED letter to gain if you tilt… Assuming the TD witnesses the action, how do they decide if it was deliberate or normal play? Did the player know about the “reward” to be earned?
IMO, as a TD it’s hard to enforce this unless I heard the player speaking of their intent either before or after the action. Otherwise you’re relying on too much assumption to DQ someone for what may have been an honest attempt at normal play. Although, shoving a classic Stern before any points have been scored would definitely raise a red flag.
Wait, you gain a GREED letter for tilting?
You learn something new every day. Well, that and that if you dig a tunnel straight through the earth from the PAPA facility you will end up in the ocean about a 1000 miles from Australia.
Only if you would normally get one from Valid Playfield (i.e. before you start your first multiball).
My suspicion is that tilt causes valid playfield to get called, but it doesn’t check to see if the playfield was already valid when doing it, and valid playfield is what awards the letter if necessary. This is also probably why your hidden menu will show you hundreds of non-fatal errors (bad time to score (during tilt)).
IMO the “no-tilt-to-derive-advantage” rule kind of sucks because it creeps into the “determining player intent” realm a little too much. Say you really do just need one more letter on ball 3 of F2K to light multiball; my guess is that you’re gonna try pretty hard to bounce that ball into the right rollover lane. What if you tilt? Are you just DQd then for tilting to gain an advantage? I dunno, I can see the reasoning (letting players tilt intentionally can result in game abuse and also lengthened match times) but I feel like the important cases are already handled by other rules. For tournaments that don’t have such a rule (many don’t here) you can bet I’m tilting to kick out locks where it applies and tilting at the start of ball 1 on Sterns to gauge where the tilt is.
Sounds like more tournaments near you need rules! The type of edge play you’re describing is why those rules exist
KCB is famous for cheating his way to win most tournament Recently just double dangered a TWD to get his last Well Walker hit and start MB!
Is this only for classic Sterns? Or also for any other manufacturer’s classic era pins?
I don’t know of any others, but I can’t say definitively.