Summary of the different "Strikes" formats?


#1

So regular strikes are 0-0-X-X for 4p, 0-X-X for 3p, and 0-X for 2p

What are “fair” strikes and “progressive” strikes for each of the player counts?


#2

Progressive
0-1-2-3 / 0-1-2 / 0-1

Fair
0-1-1-2 / 0-1-2 / 0-2


#3

I ran simulations for:

01-011-0111
01-011-0011
01-001-0011
01-001-0001
02-012-0112
01-012-0123

I can do anything, but those seemed the most popular.


#4

Thanks for the info, fellas! Definitely learning a lot from here.


#5

Do you have a similar program for two-player 0-1 strike formats? I’m trying to build an argument on why I feel Group Fair-Strike is better than Head-to-Head Strikes and being able to run simulations to show some data would be helpful.

NINJA EDIT:

Nevermind! I found the updated V2 .exe in another thread:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aZ4hGwQLmQXf0E3pBML71PMDT_WjVg8g/view

Playing with it now. Thanks for this!


#6

These (2p and 3p groups) have also already been analyzed for tgp purposes: https://www.ifpapinball.com/menu/tgpguide2019/

But if you’re wondering how long matches are, etc. then yeah that’s not on the website, though I do have that data. The data can be pretty shocking, and @pinwizj (et al?) did a good job in smoothing it out I think.


#7

Ppl who have played in both formats. Any thoughts or preferences?


#8

I prefer progressive strikes. My reason is that I think it evens the spread the best.


#9

Yes. Especially when having 3 player groups.

Fair strikes might be the best though. Haven’t ran any yet.


#10

I prefer Progressive because every finishing position is worth something, but Fair isn’t too different. They’re both so much better than regular knockouts.

Just make sure you have a rule in place for the final 2 players so you don’t end up with a crazy long battle at the end. I like to manually add the same number of strikes to both players so that the player with more strikes is in a must win situation.

Example:

  • 9 strike progressive
  • Player A has 6 strikes
  • Player B has 3 strikes
  • Manually add 2 strikes to both players

This maintains the competitive advantage earned by Player B but makes it much less likely to drag on. I’ve had good results with it so far.


#11

Yeah I like that rule too for when it gets down to two players if that scenario occurs. Thanks for the feedback!


#12

@pinwizj is this still allowed in 5.5?


#13

It’s fine to do, but it does move the event out of following the TGP Guide.

It would be graded on actual meaningful games played manually.


#14

Really, it significantly increases Player B’s advantage. Player B now only needs to win 1 of 4 games, instead of 3 out of 8.

Using Fair Strikes obviates the need for special rules/strike adjustments, since the loser of a two-player match receives 2 strikes.

And, as the name suggests, it’s fairer: it removes the huge advantage given to the smaller group(s) in a round when using Progressive.


#15

What about this situation in fair strikes?

  • Player A has 8 strikes
  • Player B has 7 strikes

The one strike advantage for Player B has become meaningless at this point, which doesn’t feel very “fair”.

Edit to add:

I actually like this aspect of progressive. When using Swiss groupings, the 3 player groups are at the bottom, and fewer strikes to go around helps keep those players in the mix longer.


#16

Yeah, that’s an odd quirk of Fair Strikes. Your last strike is much more valuable than your second-to-last strike. But that applies to everyone; I don’t think it’s inherently unfair.

This does lead to situations where some players who have three strikes to give are in a 3-player group, while other players on the same number of strikes are in a 4-player group. Some players are facing the prospect of immediate elimination, while others aren’t, based on sheer randomness.


#17

What are thoughts on this Hybrid Progressive / Finals with Fair Strikes Approach?
Progressive Strikes - Players get 8/9 strikes - 3,2,1,0

Option 1
All 2 player groups are Fair Strikes - 0,2

Option 2
Just final 2 players left are Fair Strikes 0,2


#18

I do this currently but only when it’s down to the final 2. It’s pretty rare when we have only 5 players left for more than a round.