Suggestion: update player responsibility text


#1

“It is the responsibility of all players to ensure the correct player is on the machine at all times.”

We have seen several threads where the interpretation of this text is varying widely. This text is causing more trouble than it is helping. It needs to specify actions required of the player or consequences or both.

I am not saying my interpretation is right, but I always read it as a reference to the previous sentence “Any points scored when a ball is being played out of turn count.” So my interpretation has always been, you have no ground to complain about the free points your opponent got. And that is all.

If it is more than that, it should be stated, such as, if you notice someone playing out of turn, “you should ask them to trap up and call an official.” Or “you are required at all times to stand right behind the player and watch like a hawk. If they are playing the wrong player you should run around screaming cheater at the top of your lungs.” Or “If you are having a smoke and someone plays the wrong ball you get a red card for not ensuring the correct player was at the machine.”


#2

“It is the responsibility of all players to ensure the correct player is on the machine at all times.”

I believe this only applies when starting a game (entering in the correct number of players).

If you play out of turn you get a score of zero for that game.

IFPA rules from website:
In any multiplayer match on any machine, it is the equal responsibility of ALL players involved in the match to ensure that the correct number of players are started. If a game is started with the incorrect number of players, anything that occurs within that game is considered void, with no penalty to any player. At no time may players be added to the game once player 1 has plunged their ball into play. At no time may player 1 finish their game as a single-player. The game must be restarted from scratch, with the correct number of players started. Players may always ask a scorekeeper or tournament official to instead start the game in any final round. If the scorekeeper or official makes a mistake, the game will be terminated and restarted, with no penalty to any player. There will be no compensation or adjustment of scores or game state at any time.

A player who plays out of turn in a multiplayer game will receive a score of zero. The affected player may choose to take over the ball in play, if possible, or he or she may choose to have the incident treated as a major malfunction. In the event the player takes over, he or she shall be deemed “in control” after declaring his or her intent, taking his or her position at the table, and making contact with the ball via the flippers. The affected player may not change his or her mind once he or she is “in control”. Any player who plays out of turn deliberately in order to employ this rule will be disqualified. Any points scored when a ball is being played out of turn count. It is the responsibility of all players to ensure the correct player is on the machine at all times.


#3

It is right there at the end of the second paragraph you quoted.


#4

Good point. 100% agree on the prior sentence providing context for the sentence after it. There’s no consequence listed for shirking the “responsibility” other than the points that are earned on the wrong player.

In the event that it’s either admitted or proven that two or more players intentionally allow a player to continue racking up points on the wrong player, then the consequence for doing so falls under the player conduct section regarding collusion.


#5

I can confirm that the intention of that prior sentence is to provide this context.

The rules verbiage was updated back in June 2016 after it was unclear whether the points should stand or not for any of this activity (thread is here - Ruling - Playing out of turn).

In the private correspondence between IFPA and PAPA about this update, MHS added that sentence to the verbiage. Here were his comments to Zach and myself about it:

“My opinion is if all players are paying attention to a multiplayer match, this issue will never come up. Making the points count is not only clean, but it keeps people around the game in question and focused on what they’re doing, which is always good.”


Ruling: Out of Turn Play
#6

A player who plays out of turn in a multiplayer game will receive a score of zero. The affected player may choose to take over the ball in play, if possible, or he or she may choose to have the incident treated as a major malfunction.

I think there should be an exception to this rule. If the ball being played out of turn is ball 1, the affected player should restart another single player game after the others are finished. Why let a player earn points when they haven’t even stepped up to the the game? I know i wouldn’t want those unearned points. This exception would also discourage what was being discussed in the other thread (affected player letting out of turn player keep playing).


#7

All four players are responsible for making sure they are playing in the correct order. If I am player 2 and you are player 3, and you step up to play my ball, both of us are at fault for not paying attention.


#8

Are you in favor of equal penalties for all players?


#9

Good luck enforcing that. hate to be away from the game on a bathroom break or conversing with friends during pinburgh only to get penalized for not paying attention to game in progress. There goes the social aspect of all pinball events down the drain.