Stuck ball in land grab

Really, no one is arguing about this?

Nope

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@pinwizj likes this”

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Synopsis for those not in the know?

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Player was playing land grab on monopoly (a timed multiball with unlimited ball save). Very early on, a ball got wedged under the rotating mini flipper. The player played on. A little while later, a second ball fell in behind getting a second ball stuck for a bit, but actually eventually dislodging the first ball.

I felt the written rule says trap up and get it dislodged. And since there is unlimited ball save you have no excuse for not trapping up.

My co-commentater felt there was no material advantage, therefore play on.

Edit. Here is the video. Breaks my nice anonymized description :slight_smile:
http://www.twitch.tv/iepinball/v/218563859?sr=a&t=13393s

I agree with the no advantage. I think if the unlimited ball save is still running any stuck balls are not an advantage because they cannot be lost anyway.

I see it being similar to WCS final draw. You can leave a ball in the shooter lane imo since it’s unlimited ball save.

Slightly dissimilar to the WCS situation because if you’re not actively plunging balls into play, Germany scores goals faster. Sure, there’s nothing wrong with leaving one in the shooter lane, but you’re doing yourself a disservice by doing so.

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03:43:39 here for those interested: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/218563859

Can’t seem to clip it for some reason :confused:

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Josh’s reply to this says he cares less, and successfully dodged the question.

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I see that as a very slight disservice though. I can score much much faster with only two balls out there and one in the shooter than I can with 5 balls out there at all times. My best performances scorewise have come doing it this way. It’s hard to even notice the change in Germany’s goal frequency.

Just depends on the TD I guess. If anything, during an unlimited timed mb, it is a material disadvantage to not have one of the balls (generally speaking). It would certainly be a disadvantage to lose a bunch of time trapping up, etc.

Personally, I agree with playing on, it’s generally in the best interests of the competition.

But then, I also think losing control of a ball during TNPLH doesn’t warrant a free ball, so what do I know?

I will be interested to know what the letter-of-the-law folks think.

I thought of this exact analogy too; the difference is that if you actively leave a ball in the shooter lane in WCS, the game will penalize you with higher Germany scoring. In this case, if a ball got naturally stuck during World Cup Final, it could argued to be a material advantage (easier to shoot goals with fewer balls, no penalty for harder Germany scoring).

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Fair point, but how much faster is Germany actually scoring when less balls are in play? I kept only two in play and won 14-3 one time.

Well I was under the impression it was a bit harsher than that. :wink: Maybe just because you kept skillfully spamming the goal so much it didn’t have opportunity to score more.

This is all academic anyway; I don’t see anyone claiming with a straight face that their WCF should be nuked due to a stuck ball similar to the Land Grab incident.

It’s more about the seemingly contradictory inconsistencies, I think.

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I would never want to deprive anyone from enjoying all of what Monopoly has to offer. I’m inclined to say it’s “fine” because of the unlimited ball saver aspect to it, but don’t particularly care either way. If @PAPA_Doug feels strongly about it then I’m willing to let him talk to the Pinball Gods on this one.

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I think it was pointed out in chat during the stream that this was a machine malfunction. The mini flipper should cycle going clockwise and counterclockwise during mutliball to prevent this from happening in the first place.

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I say ‘play on’ - It’s not a malfunction or a ball getting trapped outside the area of play.

If a ball sits statically… are the rules going to dictate that the game risks major disruption to force a player to always require a ball to be in motion? I don’t like the ‘if the game has software for it…’ guidance of the IFPA rules. We skillfully take advantage of the game’s design all over… if that means putting a ball in the pops to take it out of the main area for awhile… or in scoops, etc… same thing should apply with putting balls where they may stay out of your way for awhile.

We skillfully allow players to trap balls on flippers, but not skillfully put balls into other traps. Boo. Its like not you are actively defeating game logic (the plunger tricks, etc). So I don’t call it an exploit. I call it ‘playing the field’

I know there is lots of convention already in the ifpa rules… but as others have already mentioned in the past… this leads to so much variation and ‘how it applied to each game’ type of logic that means its difficult to enforce consistently and constantly requires consulting with the oracle on if this ‘really was the best ruling’. To me, that suggests the rules are not consistent enough.

I favor ‘lucky benefit’ over ‘penalizing players to try to enforce 100% neutrality’ in a game designed around controlled chaos. The fact we tend to force players to accept ‘bad luck’ but suggest they risk great loss to remove ‘good luck’… has never sat well with me.

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I had two balls tapped by the rotating flipper in qualifying. Waited about 3 ball searches for it to try rotating the other way but it never did. Eventually had to call Karl over, and the literal second he was about to take the glass off, it finally decided to change direction and free them. :slightly_smiling_face:

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A similar thing happened to me. I had given up on the trapped ball, but it suddenly freed itself after many ball searches.

What is the expected behavior? Flipper is supposed to rotate the other direction in ball search?

Not super familiar with Monopoly but I’m willing to bet it’s something that should be considered in a normal ball search.

The one in freeplay would go the other way pretty quick, before ball search I think. Maybe timed to go the other way after what would be a full rotation.