Should IFPA create Split Flipper Rankings?

Sort of like doubles tennis, does it make sense for IFPA to rank two-player teams competing in Split Flipper events? I wonder if such a system would have the effect of making Split Flipper events more common and competitive.


That would be amazing. Shmalt shall rise to the top!

I definitely think some more consequential split flipper events would be interesting. Rankings could imaginably motivate the same teams of players to stick together. I imagine few at IFPA want to take on a new ranking system, but who knows?

In general, though, I think an increase in split flipper events could also be an interesting way to see different strategic approaches, and potentially, a way for less experienced players to learn from more experienced ones (a more experienced player shares game rules, helps a partner train at passing, etc.). It would be interesting to see what kind of teams develop, such as ones with deep rule knowledge among both players, ones where both players have good one-handed flipper skills, ones where one player excels at rules knowledge and another at flipper skills, etc.

No. It’s exponentially more possible data for a nearly zero number of events.

Make a Google sheet to track them for now. If the format becomes popular the IFPA can import the data.


No. I’d much rather see team comps data. Split flipper is a novelty and I don’t think it’s worthy to put on the IFPA


I’d like Teams over split flipper too. Co Ed even would be super cool.

FWIW team leagues are free to submit results to Match Play Ratings. Monday Night Pinball in Seattle and Bay Bridge Pinball in the SF Bay Area both submit data this way and use a combination of IFPA ranking and MP rating for roster restrictions.

Two people playing a game on the same team simultaneously isn’t a novelty. There is a lot of skill and is/was worthy as an event at PAPA. Im not saying IFPA needs to track it though.


We have “open” and “womens” events tracked by IFPA. I dont think coed split flipper would be something they’d entertain anytime soon. I do know what they’re entertaining though :zipper_mouth_face:

Not split flipper for coed. Just regular team style. Similar to volleyball and other sports.

$2 per ranking though…

to drive interest.


My understanding is that for most team leagues, you get to pick your opponents. I don’t see how we could use that for rankings. In many/most cases, the choice of game/opponent is made deliberately to create a mismatch…which is very different from typical tournaments where it’s either random or you’re playing increasingly more difficult matchups as you progress.

1 Like

Random/Balanced pairings vs Swiss changes participants path to victory significantly.

When you combine events that have things like 4 rounds, 2 games per round you’re talking about 15 participants between you and the finish line.

Under IFPA “pairings” / opponents strength to path to victory is irrelevant.

So, what does it matter if you pick your opponent or matchplay picks an easy one for you?

This is one of the advantages of a glicko ratings system like MP Ratings. Beating an “easy” opponent will barely affect your rating (if at all) while beating a “tough” opponent will impact your rating more significantly. “Mismatches” are handled as a part of the rating system itself.

You can beat an opponent by never playing them in a lot of formats.

This goes from Group Match-Play to the SCS. You can finish ahead of much better players without ever competing against them.

Because I’ve played in just about every format that exists, and team league is different. As a captain, I consistently sacrifice lessor players to superstars on the other team. I let some people choose their games, but for others, I will make the decisions.

Players could choose to prioritize their team, or prioritize their own standings and make choices to reflect that.

Using team league results for a glicko like rating system might be okay, but it would also need to account for tons of situational play, where you surrender your game because you are in second but your teammate is first and it makes no difference to the team score. Or you are the last game of the night so you only need to come in third for your team to win.

Team league results would need need to be submitted on a per game basis to have any relevance (and even then it’s suspect based on the above), and we don’t do that currently for anything IFPA related.

1 Like

That is true for IFPA rankings and ratings, but not for Match Play Ratings. MPR looks at the actual matches you played. It does not make up simulated results based on the final tournament standings like IFPA rankings.


I really enjoy split flip competitions so I’m all for a system that kept track of individual players in split flipper competitions. There are skills involved with split flip that don’t come up in other pinball situations, mostly on the communication front, but you also have to be able to anticipate where the ball is going and what your teammate is going to most likely going to do with it when it goes to them.

I think team rankings would become way to complicated and cumbersome especially if split flip and team formats caught on more. Teammates might switch around based on who is available or just for fun from a tournament to tournament. If there was going to be such a ranking system I would guess that you would have to do it based giving individuals Splitflip/Team WPPRs based on the finish of the entire team. Obviously, it wouldn’t be a perfect system but for me personally, I’d rather have an simpler imperfect system, than something super complicated.

1 Like

You should know that most tournies I play in, the order doesn’t matter to the TD. Only who got strikes and who didn’t. Some will ask who took strikes and some will ask who didn’t. And then they just put in the results that make those happen. So ABCD can easily become (AB)(CD) with the letters swapping inside parentheses randomly. And players 3 and 4 won’t continue to play if they are safe, and in most tournies they are encouraged not to play. So 2nd is the same as first. (In 4 player 2 strike scenarios).

That’s why group knockout tournaments (and ladder tournaments and so on) have special handling when it comes to calculating ratings. In your example no result (for ratings purposes) is recorded between A&B or between C&D. :slight_smile: