Maybe we’re miscommunicating. You don’t give player one last place if players 2-4 play a new game on TRON. You would compare player 1’s score to players 2-4.
If TRON can’t be used you can’t compare player 1’s score to the other players. Everyone gets a new game.
Well this is never an ideal outcome 
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I don’t think I agree here. When player 1 finished their game, in 4th place (I’m assuming this means they were still behind every other two-ball score on display), and before any malfunction occurred, then they earned 4th place. They don’t get another crack at the group due to any replays, that would be unfair to players 2-4.
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We don’t know that. The TD voided the whole game. If the TD had awarded compensation balls I would agree, record the scores as best you can and go from there.
Since the TD voided the game you shouldn’t essentially give player one a zero, you should compare their valid score to player’s 2-4 valid scores.
I want to be clear that I’m not questioning the call that was made or even saying it was wrong or right. It’s just that I’m so new to “rulings” that I want to dissect any that occur so that I can understand the basic rules behind them or how they are made. I went to the Papa and IFPA rules last night to read up on them myself and just got more confused, so turned to Tilt Forums to get some discussion. Thanks for entertaining my question with such good discussion points.
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I will add that this was what confused me the most because I couldn’t find any rulings that allowed a complete replay for ALL players. So I guess in my mind, I was questioning why everyone got a new game.
If that player was 4th after ball 3 as player 1, and no mafunction had yet been ruled, that player is done and in 4th place.
The other players can play a game on El Toro instead, or a different Tron, or the same Tron, that doesn’t matter. Those three players are playing for 1st through 3rd.
If Tron started on fire during player two’s ball and burned to the ground, player 1 would still be 4th place.
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Yeah this was all I was getting at. Player one’s position was locked in and verifiable.
No matter what the decision is for this situation, P1 will get fourth place when the dust settles.
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I don’t think I agree here. When player 1 finished their game, in 4th place (I’m assuming this means they were still behind every other two-ball score on display), and before any malfunction occurred, then they earned 4th place. They don’t get another crack at the group due to any replays, that would be unfair to players 2-4.
It seems to me you are right about player 1 already finished 4th and shouldn’t play the replacement game. But the reason isn’t that its fair, it’s because the rules explicitly say so. This is imo not fair. If an early player finishes bad, it counts, but if he finishes good, it doesn’t count. That is Double Jeopardy. Not fair. But again, the rules are clear, he is out.
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“When in doubt, screw the player”
It’s not about good versus bad. It’s about a known result. That player that finished 4th was already defeated by everyone. There’s no need for additional data to make that finishing position known.
The other three players could all have bad scores as well, or all have great scores. The only thing relevant is that their finishing position was not known for certain at the time of the malfunction.
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Why void a game if you know when the malfunction occurred? Voiding a game means restarting from zero and you should have to beat every valid score. If players 2-4 get to replay their balls that happened before the malfunction then player 1 should too.
Compensation balls avoid this.
It’s not about good versus bad. It’s about a known result.
It is the same thing. The result is known exactly because it is bad.
Absolutely compensation balls should be used for any score that was verified. My example stretches to literally that Tron burning to the ground, or any other catastrophic malfunction.
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Player 1 could have had a great game … That’s still irrelevant.
At FPF I had 1.8bil on WCS which was guaranteed last place before the remaining players played their third ball.
If WCS burned to the ground, those players had already proven to have beaten my GOOD score with a GREAT score.
But we can agree to disagree on this one …
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Tron starting on fire is only a minor malfunction.
Playing El Toro is a major malfunction.
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Don’t we, though? Here’s the relevant part of the original post on this particular Tron game:
Even an ambiguous reading of “He was on ball 3” says to me that Player 1 was done before the malfunction occurred. Therefore that player is done, 4th place, full stop.
No. The TD voided the whole game. Maybe they determined the malfunction happened at an undetermined time. Our TRON on location sometimes does the same thing.
If the TD knew for sure when the malfunction happened they could have awarded a compensation ball to player 4. We don’t know why they did what they did.
Seems like a TD would need to have great knowledge of the game’s rules to make this call (switch malfunction) to rule out any other possible explanations of how disc multiball started. Doesn’t Flynn’s Arcade sometimes award “advance disc”, so it’s possible the player started disc multiball this way?
Is the stream available online to review?
Seems like if the switch (opto?) by the disc triggered erroneously the display would still show the animation indicating a disc hit (X more to access disc), and if the player was 2-3 shots away there would need to be 1 or 2 of these animations before the final switch hit to start multiball.
I think I understand what you’re saying now. Because it was a recap of a stream and not someone actually present, we don’t know for sure what the TD said. I still think player 1’s 4th place stands though. If the machine was malfunctioning enough to be pulled, it should have been pulled before the game was finished, especially with something like a flaky disc. That would have been immediately obvious to anyone watching/playing, so I would be confident in saying there was no malfunction prior to what we’ve been told.
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