Ruling for TNA

So we had a similar situation to Ruling: TNA at TPF at our state tournament this weekend and I’m wondering what the correct ruling should have been.

It’s slightly different I think than what happened at TPF but I’m not confident I made the right call.

The setup:
Player had one ball locked and hit the second ball lock, but hit the ball so hard that the lock mech failed to catch one of the balls leaving one ball in the front spot of the drops and returning the other ball into play. The game then auto plunged the next ball into play but did not start multiball yet. The player trapped up and called for TD. The player wanted to simply hit the drop with one of the balls to start multiball.

The ruling:
Record the scores, and drain one of the balls hoping the game would know that there are two balls on the playfield, but quite possibly would end the ball in play resulting in a comp ball.

The ball was drained and the game did not know the correct state and thus counted bonus and moved onto the next player.

Worth note:
The question was asked if the game could be set for an additional ball mid play since it was ball two rather than starting a new game for the comp ball. Another TD was called in and it was attempted but the game ended up reseting when the setting was changed.

So was the right call made here or should it have been a beneficial malfunction and the player allowed to shoot the lock to start the multiball with two balls in play?

beneficial malfunction when the game thinks there is only 1 ball in play where there is 2?

Also other issue is that this game has lock stealing so maybe in that case of an drain resulting in a comp ball. can give the next player an easy multi ball, with the 1st player losing progress, or even the next player having to deal with 2 balls in play when the game only things there is one.

some times its safer to pocket the ball then to drain.

Now there is an small chance the player asking to change the setting mid game did it knowing that will reset the game.

I think the right call was made overall but I feel like they should have put one of the balls behind the second lock as normal if the game is saying that lock 2 was qualified. Then put the other ball into the shooter lane so the player doesn’t get a free shot of getting multiball. If TNA didn’t have physical locks, the correct decision was made.

I’m pretty sure most state TDs wouldn’t allow a Spooky game as part of their lineup.

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TNA is better then the others the bigger issue is mode ends game (not really coved all in the IFPA rules other then that it forces it to graded as an 1 ball game or time play game)

Player asking for the setting change was definitely not trying to take advantage of that, just knows that a thing to try.

Didn’t think of doing that. But there’s giant cover over that area so removing that and placing the ball behind one of the drops seems like it might have been a bit much, but I suppose was an option.

You should not try to change a game to 4 ball unless you are certain the game supports it.

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Stern SAM and later have it.
JJP NOT YET (more like it may be added some day)
CC remake no
American Pinball NO
Spooky like not and very little tournament settings at all.

Full Throttle limited? and some things are buggy.
Alien Heighway has an limited in game menu but some things are buggy.
Alien Pinball Brothers had the buggy stuff removed from the in game menu.
pinball brothers queen has the in game menu.

Capcom NO
WPC and system 11 NO WAY
SYSTEM 3 NO (and look out coin interlock kills all power)

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TNA does not impact TGP. SPOILERS - TNA Spoiler discussion - #16 by pinwizj


by the 2018 rules and 2018 ruling was before more games where made with mode ends game.
also before pingolf TPG changed and frenzy changes

I think that this for (games that don’t have an setting to turn it off) and games with mode fail ends ball (that don’t have an setting to turn it off) needs to have the comp ball rules and other stuck ball rules changed to cover it even the stuck ball in multi ball ones.
There is at least one game where when the game is open to free the stuck ball it has zero point switches that re enable the flippers.

Things like JJP pirates where if enabled you can take balls from other players and give them to your self. (things like that are not covered at all as well games where you can TAKE / GIVE points to others)

also pin golf like formats aka when you hit an goal your game is over does not have the same TPG as an full game. see the 5.8 rules

Per the 5.8 rules (2023)
“The TGP will now include games played that are fewer than 3 balls, including timed formats where players are attempting to reach a score or objective as quickly as possible. Any game where it’s possible for the player to finish on the first ball in play, will be calculated at 33% value for TGP purposes.”

That rule is from 2017 who h is specifically why that question was asked (in an attempt to make the written rule match the way it is enforced). There are many many many games that end after the wizard mode. That is ignored because basically no one beats the wizard mode in competition.


On most with this it’s not beats but just get’s to it that it becomes ends game.
Also the VERY GOOD GAME RULE if over used does hit the TPG as well.
Now also TNA is not as long as other games.

Now what if other games start to put mode ends ball or game then what needs to happen to other rules?

say some has the idea like we should put this mode where if do X or fail to do Y then we are going to kill you game over? or even mode fail = loss of all points?

or say they put in an in way to be skill to hit an game warp to the finale mode.

Some of that has more to do with other rules then just the TPG.

Timeplay games are cut down by the TPG and are not really used at all in competition

You made the right call.
There was a minor malfunction (the lock did not function properly), the game did not start multi-ball but did kick another ball into play. You correctly drained one ball and the game ended the ball.

Trying to change the game to four balls per game was a reasonable attempt. Hopefully that behavior is documented (with code version) so other TDs are aware.

Correct call, IMO. The software failed you.

Having also learned the hard way don’t fiddle with game settings unless you know for sure that it will work.

TNA is fine for a tournament (similar-ish thing happened to Travis on GZ at TPF) other spooky games not so much. With TNA you need to check that your trough works well (installing proper connectors to the trough boards is a must do). I check the troughs specifically on TNA and any JJP game.