Pinburgh Round 10 "Diversion"


pretty much anything that involves ‘playing another game’ I think will be shot down. Time is the big unforgiving beast in an event like Pinburg and while I think they have great control of it now… I doubt they want to go backwards here.


Yeah, I’d be pretty pissed if I earned 6 “wins”, but then lost three of them because of poor performance on the additional game


Idea: Simply do not allow those groups to advance 4 players.

If Round 10 6/6/6/6 happens, take it to some other total points measure to find the “winning 6’s” and the “losing 6s” This only requires a little additional addition by the scorekeeper and a minimal delay. No additional games or anything, just get slightly more granular.


At least those 7/7/5/5 splits are still safe :slight_smile:


If the problem is severe enough, you can call those groups “bubble groups” and only two (or one, whatever you need) get in per group regardless of final scores. So, if 7755 gets all 4 in, then making it a ‘bubble group’ still only sends the 7’s.


So everyone plays their best, stuff happens and it ends in a 4-way tie and they get punished and have to play a tiebreaker because it “looks” like collusion ?

Not every tie is a conspiracy to game the system.


Yea, players have enough on their minds just trying to win, no need to pile “avoid the number of the beast plus one!” onto it… Not sure what else to do except shame those who are caught colluding or sandbagging.


That’s how it SHOULD be. First, in this level of competition there’s no such thing as relaxing your game. Second, by winning first game, that top seed was now fighting for a single or double bye. Why shouldn’t they press for as many points as possible? Third, who knows where the cutoff was, but everyone knew losing 3 points could knock you down 100 spots. So if that top seed wins first game, then 0-0-0, they are at risk of being knocked out.

You state it was a problem for that top seed to go for as many points as possible. However, I think that’s precisely what they should have been doing.


That approach shows promise, but you still have the issue of 40th vs 41st in such tiering, where those two players likely have the same number of points. But perhaps the following variation of that can work: Suppose 40th place is at 66 points after round 9. Then first tier is all players with 67+ points. Players at the top are fighting for byes, at the bottom for survival. 6-6-6-6 is unlikely a good outcome for any group unless one or more players are willing to sacrifice a bye. Second tier is everyone tied at 66 points. Only some of them can possibly make it in, so this becomes more of a tie breaker; a tie at 6 points could be a loss. Third tier then starts with everyone who has 65 or less points, and at that point downward, you can go with players with equal points, because 6-6-6-6 means nobody advances, so everyone will play hard.

The main caveat I see with this approach is you could end up with a few 3-player groups among people fighting for spots. I’ve yet to play in a 3-player group, so I’m not sure if that’s a major issue or minor issue. This could be addressed with someone on the 67+ threshold being put in the tied-for 66 point group, for example, to ensure only 4-player groups. Having one such player with a point more won’t change that 6-6-6-6 is not a good group outcome for everyone, thus collusion is avoided.


I’m not talking about relaxing my game. I’m talking about risk, strategy, and which scoring opportunities to chase.

I did not say this. I would not criticize any player’s strategy that did not violate the rules or spirit of the tournament. Please do not mince my words.

Here were the 3 problems that I had which will hopefully make things clear.

  1. This was not posted ahead of time.
    Pinburgh Staff members have apologized for this mistake. People aren’t perfect, and the website wasn’t updated to match the official rules. We now have a discussion and an apology. All good here.

  2. I made incorrect strategy choices for the situation I was placed in, due in part to my lack of understanding and preparedness of the situation for the group members I was in.
    On Black Knight Ball 1 and 2 I shot for the loop to light locks on the upper playfield. Both times I did this I lost the ball.
    On Terminator 2, I ignored a 15 million point hurry-up on Ball 2 to instead shoot for the lock target.

I made both of these decisions because I was Chasing the Top Seed’s aggressive play. Had I had time to look at the point totals of the players in my group, to understand things like:

  • bottom seed needed 9 points to qualify after game 1, so needed perfect 3s on each game.
  • top seed was within position to qualify with a double bye, but needed an 11 or 12 to do so, due to his 4-point lead over me.
  • Other middle seed needed about the same number of points as me, and was my actual competition in the group.

I may have made different pinball decisions. I believe I would have done so, but I do not have a time machine, so I cannot test this theory. I Did not understand these bullet points until Sunday. There were approximately 0 minutes between when I saw my group of players and when the round started. I also did not understand that the groupings were not in error until the middle of game 2, when a player in my group went to the front desk to ask about the situation.

Third (keeps autocorrecting to 1). The divergence in round 10 introduces a new set of circumstances in Pinburgh, which may have negative consequences for the competition or for some players competing in Pinburgh.
I would like to give my feedback regarding my personal experience in this new situation. I would also like to be a part of this discussion because I would like to maximize my chances of success in the upcoming Pinburgh tournaments. It is not every day that I have the opportunity to win $15,000 from playing pinball, so I feel that it is important for me to give feedback, or at least vent.


Rule #1 on BK. Never shoot the light lock loop until you have magna saves lit. I know you probably already know this but I just had to lay it out there!:slight_smile:

On second thought, that should be rule #2.

Rule #1 on BK… Always hold right flipper up on the plunge…


I know some people on this thread were interested in seeds and IFPA rankings, so I’ve added them as filters and created a few more charts:!/vizhome/Pinburgh2017/ByPositionAllRounds

If you have any discussion points related to the analysis app, I’m including a link to that thread here: Pinburgh Qualifying Rounds Analysis