I believe this applies to the format not the games code. Pin golf being the main example.
Why wouldn’t their score differentiate them?
Exactly. If a game has a hard-stop ending, the player who scored the most points getting to the end is the winner. The current games with endings (JP2, TnA) last plenty long enough for player skill (and not luck) to determine the results.
I do agree this should be clarified in rules at some point.
other official rules say things like if an player get the max score then that is there score (and will be tied if more then one does the same) + the papa very good game rule that says you stop and if an other player gets to that same score they are tied. So if any thing the 2 closest clarified in rules things do point to an tie.
Yeah but there isn’t a max score in any of the games you’ve mentioned. Only that they played modes that ended the game. Their scores would be different. Use the scores.
But then the Intentional delay rule? Let’s say that are at the point of shoot hear to start that gameing end mode and they Intentionally keep missing to build up the score? Even if say keep hitting an low point switch?
Just saying as it in can fall under any number of other set rules and some can say well that is kind of like rule X.
But lets say an TD rules that you get an comp balls on an new game then what?
Then I play the comp ball. Haha
I think some of these rules had very specific situations that gave rise to the rules.
If a game is working properly and ends as intended, the score determines the winner. If the scores are the same, break the tie
This exact bug was not only captured on video in a tournament, but Keefer was on the commentary! I was one of the 3 players and I thankfully advanced. Greg Defeo was the player who encountered the bug. Enjoy the video!
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I was going to bring this up but thanks for grabbing the link!
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and if i’m in multi ball in an mode the fail = end of ball (i’m not calling the TD for 1 stuck ball) or even in an muilt ball mode that ends game)
can’t be used unless other rules are changed to not F** the player over by having to wait for the TD and then to be told the after unstinting the ball the game ened as intended you don’t get an comp ball.
Sorry. It’s kind of hard to understand your points. Game score is what decides a game. A TD is not needed unless the game doesn’t behave as it was intended. If you play a game that goes to game over after beating the wizard mode, the score of all players that have done this will determine their final standing of that match.
If a mode ends your ball as intended (never seen any game with a mode that ends the players ball if you don’t complete it), then that players turn is over. The game is operating as intended. Also I would recommend not using games that are coded like this.
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I will assume you are referring to modes that are timed and result in losing vs. modes that are complete-or-die (e.g. 1-ball Destroy the Ring).
I know for sure Fantastic Journey had a mode like you describe (time it out and you drain); I’m still trying to think of a real machine example.
Before-send-edit: Hah, I knew I could think of one. Operation Thunder. Booya.
I will say I thought VERY SERIOUSLY about getting boo’d off stage in GNR ending your ball.
Because you personally don’t like it? Is there some actual reasoning behind this? Is it somehow not an actual test of skill?
Well, there is sort of an implied contract in pinball that you get to continue playing your ball until it falls into the trough. Changing this “contract” by saying that the player also can’t continue playing their ball if they don’t perform adequately at a mode… raises some flags. I’m not on board with @chuckwurt’s outright rejection, but I certainly wouldn’t want to see this concept become a trend, either.
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That’s awesome to have video of it. Were any of the players aware of what was happening? Or were only Keefer/Bowden aware? It looked like everyone was fine with playing on. Plus the video confirms there’s no way to intentionally trigger it – Greg triggered it just by plunging, so whatever causes it is completely internal.
In the other thread, it was mentioned that this bug only occurs in Competition Mode. I hit the bug again today, so I tested what would happen if I turned Competition Mode off mid-game. Sure enough, that DOES fix the problem. The next ramp I hit advanced my hand right where I left off. So TDs do have an option to try to fix it. The only tricky part is this: the flippers die when you open the door. So the only way to fix it without losing a ball is by changing the settings when the player locks a ball in Ace-in-the-Hole and the ball is sitting in the plunger lane.
(Edit: Actually you won’t lose a ball if the TD turns on the Coin Door Ball Saver feature before the tournament starts.)
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Agree about the implied contract. That unwritten contract has been in place for almost 100 years. Game ending modes is a turnoff like no replays or no extra balls awarded at a location. Even if the game is sparkly new, its not as fun if it can end if I play well or I can’t get a replay.
Wasn’t aware TNA ends at a specific level. I’ve never seen anyone come close in many weeks of league play and plenty of tournament play. If your game ending mode is extremely difficult to reach, that’s a little more forgiving. Not a fan of the game for other reasons, but that’s another thread.
I’m fine with them personally, but if players are going to belly ache about some game that keeps ending their ball for failed modes, I’d rather not use games like that.
You can always change the settings on games like GNR, so there is a very little chance of losing your ball this way. I believe the intent on the coding was to promote more on the fly play. Of course there are other ways to create incentive for this type play but I have no issue with this. The way our machine is setup right now I would have no problem with it being added in high level competition play.
competition play should not have stuff like that or ball ending stuff should auto reset on coin door open when in competition play.
As for game ending modes (when in competition play coin door resets timer for them?)
Let me know when you come across an example of high level standard-game competition where two players in the same game/matchup have gotten to a beat-the-game state that causes an end to their ball 1 or 2.
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For the old EM game Klondike - I have come across a few where the right button to roll the “casino reels” advances more than one slot and this seems to be a glitch. Sometimes when the three reels come up to score the points it doesn’t register. Weird.