Is pinball still perceived as "vintage" to people outside the hobby?

[YeOldPinPlayer]

@SunsetShimmer

In the case of the music themes for the modern age, Imagine Dragons, Bruno Mars, and Taylor Swift have been topping charts for over a decade by this point, so I would say they would be firmly safe bets. They’re definitely not obscure. (One could argue Eminem has been hitting the charts even longer, but he’s not as active as he used to be.) Admittedly, The Weeknd is probably at or near his peak at this moment (but I do expect that peak to go on for a while), whereas Dua Lipa had just broken into the mainstream last year with “Levitating” and is currently figuring out what to do with this newfound popularity; choosing either of these would be a gamble as to if they’ll have enduring name brand recognition.

I think we’re currently at a crossroads. I hang out with a lot of people in their 20s and 30s, and when I ask them about these bands Stern keeps getting licenses for (AC/DC, Metallica, Iron Maiden, Aerosmith, Queen, etc.), more often than not they have no familiarity with any of them or their work besides what is referenced in JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure. In this demographic, for instance, show them the phrase “Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap,” and more of them will recognize it as the name of the antagonist’s powers in JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure: Steel Ball Run than a song by AC/DC. That is, we’re reaching the point where these music groups are starting to lose their mainstream recognition.

In other words, continuing to pick music groups from this era is not sustainable. The audience is limited and will grow smaller with each year. There will definitely be future generations of fans, but they won’t be nearly as large as the audiences who listened to these bands when they were new. Based on my own experiences, the only act from the 80s that still carries a huge listenership today, including among younger audiences from before their time, is Michael Jackson, a music theme that’s still conspicuously missing in pinball.

I think the changes in the music business overall will limit the future interest in licensing for pinball. The move away from a few large record companies to much smaller producers means successful acts don’t need to have huge nation or world-wide recognition. New abilities to connect directly with consumers has helped creators cut out the middle-man and still make a living.

You haven’t (and will never) seen a Michael Jackson pin other than home brews like The Moon-Walking Dead due to his association with undesirable non-music activities.

[SunsetShimmer]

@Binkley

The issue with pinball themes is it had to sell and the people with the disposable income/$ are generally older. But hey if this IGN article about the Banning auction is to be believed, we’ll soon have crypto millionaires getting into the market more haha

I wonder how much a Dragonball or Power Rangers (or Kamen Raider / other sentai) license would cost. From my observation at comic con, those are 2 of the fanbases that might actually have enough people with enough disposable/entertainment $ to buy a pinball machine haha (although as prices keep increasing and the market rises…)

There probably is a lot of viability in doing what Spooky did with Halloween/Ultraman: Same code/playfield but art/sound/graphics/etc swap with 500 of the more niche theme.

How viable is it to market these not to people to own them in their homes, but to have people go over and play them in public locations? Certainly, that must be a much wider option, provided we reach a point where public life returns to normal.

Nevertheless, the generations with the most disposable income will shift as time goes on, and they’ll be into different things than the previous generations would be.

(Also, that Undertale machine looks awesome! I wonder if they’ll make a Deltarune follow-up.)

@YeOldPinPlayer

@SunsetShimmer

In the case of the music themes for the modern age, Imagine Dragons, Bruno Mars, and Taylor Swift have been topping charts for over a decade by this point, so I would say they would be firmly safe bets. They’re definitely not obscure. (One could argue Eminem has been hitting the charts even longer, but he’s not as active as he used to be.) Admittedly, The Weeknd is probably at or near his peak at this moment (but I do expect that peak to go on for a while), whereas Dua Lipa had just broken into the mainstream last year with “Levitating” and is currently figuring out what to do with this newfound popularity; choosing either of these would be a gamble as to if they’ll have enduring name brand recognition.

I think we’re currently at a crossroads. I hang out with a lot of people in their 20s and 30s, and when I ask them about these bands Stern keeps getting licenses for (AC/DC, Metallica, Iron Maiden, Aerosmith, Queen, etc.), more often than not they have no familiarity with any of them or their work besides what is referenced in JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure. In this demographic, for instance, show them the phrase “Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap,” and more of them will recognize it as the name of the antagonist’s powers in JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure: Steel Ball Run than a song by AC/DC. That is, we’re reaching the point where these music groups are starting to lose their mainstream recognition.

In other words, continuing to pick music groups from this era is not sustainable. The audience is limited and will grow smaller with each year. There will definitely be future generations of fans, but they won’t be nearly as large as the audiences who listened to these bands when they were new. Based on my own experiences, the only act from the 80s that still carries a huge listenership today, including among younger audiences from before their time, is Michael Jackson, a music theme that’s still conspicuously missing in pinball.

I think the changes in the music business overall will limit the future interest in licensing for pinball. The move away from a few large record companies to much smaller producers means successful acts don’t need to have huge nation or world-wide recognition. New abilities to connect directly with consumers has helped creators cut out the middle-man and still make a living.

You haven’t (and will never) seen a Michael Jackson pin other than home brews like The Moon-Walking Dead due to his association with undesirable non-music activities.

I had the impression that his death has mostly restored his public credibility. Not entirely, but his music gets a lot of airtime on the radio and on Spotify. Still, it’s odd to only see the rock-and-metal side of music from that era and nothing else.

Regarding the first paragraph, do you mean that music themes will eventually become extinct?

[pinball2020]

I think the one of the most important issue is that pinball fans keep getting people interested in pinball otherwise it will go the way of square dancing or other great social hobbies that just aren’t quite as relevant anymore.
Sure, looking at picture of half a dozen kids playing pinball is great but it is going to take a lot of people to continue to be interested in pinball. Even looking at the most popular pinball streaming threads on Twitch and the like the numbers are not as high as video games or other things. Despite all of that I am guardedly optimistic.

Some interesting licensing differences - for rock and roll music - pinball was an inherent part of the cool part of being a rock’n’roller. You would see in music videos etc rockers on tour with pinball machines in their buses etc. It was a sign of status.

To keep pinball as a status/cool thing - From cribs tv shows and the like - continue to push to see that is there but there would have to be more “grab” to get younger generations to continue to be interested in pinball, be willing to either support it publically at 25 cents to a dollar a game, and then possibly to want to buy machines that cost thousands of dollars.

Remember that is how Harry Winston promoted one of the most common things on earth, compressed coal - diamonds, into a status icon that popular, successful men gave their popular, successful women. Winston use to give or loan to celebrities diamonds to wear in public and the press would point out how expensive and cool it was.That coupled with the best way to celebrate personal celebrations with the opposite sex was to give diamonds was how you would market something. And market they did to great success.

Can’t quite do that with pinball machines - you can’t “give away” a lot of pinball machines to rappers and celebrities to promote and you can’t walk around the neighborhood with a Stern Godzilla Premium machine on a chain around your neck. Well, at least I can’t yet because I didn’t get my machine delivered yet.

Remote scoring with Scorbit may or may not promote interest but - people are going back to being more socialized. They want to meet face to face to play board games, social events, watch sporting events together, and even play pinball together. Look at pre-pandemic all the social events that had flash mobs, people going to music venues and things like that.

If pinball can be marketed as a fun, social lubricant then we won’t have to worry about pinball going vintage on us.