Gottlieb Trough Post Save

[ChubbyGoomba]

I wonder if they were just concerned about repeated hits to the corner of the apron, then! Is it typically on the right side?

[MET]

I got “dq-ed” at IFPA in Sweden two years ago on Xenon in the quarterfinals against Mats Runsten by trying to save the ball - there were no rubbers and of course the ball passed already the left outlane… I wouldn’t have try it if it didn’t happen on accident while the warm-up. It didn’t matter at the end (it was ball 3 and I was already behind), but while I was playing I had always in mind that I could save a ball I already lost on the left outlane - which “happily” didn’t happen on other circumstances

[drainmorten]

Assume you wont try it this weekend hehe.
So that save was ruled as a death save then?

[MET]

no, but I’ll be always attentive.

[Wizcat]

Robowar and TX Sector also have this post. I’ve found that you infrequently get a bounce back from it (provided it has a rubber on it). I’d say it should be treated like a center post if that is the case.

[Austin]

I believe all sys80’s have them, and it seems like sys3’s although I didn’t know the latter until this thread.

[zacaj]

I don’t think my Time Line has them. At least, definitely not 2.

[bkerins]

@MET

I got “dq-ed” at IFPA in Sweden two years ago on Xenon in the quarterfinals against Mats Runsten by trying to save the ball

Yeah, I don’t agree with this at all. To me this is the same as any other post or rubber beneath the flippers. Nudging those is clearly allowed (Centaur, Wizard of Oz) so those posts should be as well.

[jdelz]

Anyone get a center post save on this Attila the Hun at Pinburgh?

[pinballguru]

Those posts were placed there to funnel the balls “One-At-A-Time” into the trough. You can make death saves from a ball coming from the left outlane with a properly timed hard nudge on many of these games.

Regarding league and tournament play, if I were the TD, I would not allow these death saves when the ball came from the outlane, but would allow nudging when the ball came from between the flippers.

[pinwizj]

@bkerins

Yeah, I don’t agree with this at all. To me this is the same as any other post or rubber beneath the flippers. Nudging those is clearly allowed (Centaur, Wizard of Oz) so those posts should be as well.

IIRC this post was used as an excuse to execute a death save following an outlane drain. I’m all for skillful nudging of it as a “center post” for drains down the middle. I’m not for using it as an excuse to execute a maneuver where the post itself isn’t actually needed.

[bkerins]

I still don’t agree. The post is needed when attempting to rescue the ball from the left outlane. Having seen this done multiple times on Xenon, I would argue this is a skillful move using a post that the game embeds to help you save the ball.

If you believe center posts should only be used to save center drains, that’s cool.

[pinwizj]

@bkerins

I still don’t agree. The post is needed when attempting to rescue the ball from the left outlane. Having seen this done multiple times on Xenon, I would argue this is a skillful move using a post that the game embeds to help you save the ball.

If you believe center posts should only be used to save center drains, that’s cool.

@PAPA_Doug and I took a quick trip up Pinball Mount Sinai, and here is what we heard:

Outlane drains are not allowed to be actively saved from a center post. If it goes down an outlane and the player actively tries to nudge it back into play, then it is a death save.

It does take skill to pull this off in Xenon, just as it takes skill to execute a death save. Both just happen to be illegal.

Make sure you rule it correctly at Pinburgh

[bkerins]

@pinwizj

Make sure you rule it correctly at Pinburgh

Not a problem, as long as the rule is clear.

[Spyderturbo007]

@pinwizj

Outlane drains are not allowed to be actively saved from a center post. If it goes down an outlane and the player actively tries to nudge it back into play, then it is a death save.

So when I nudge the hell out of WoZ with the ball in the left outlane, it flies out, hits the center post and pops back into the PF because I was holding up the left flipper, that’s illegal?

It happens a lot more than you’d think. So much so, that I always hold up the left flipper and shake the hell out of the machine.

[pinwizj]

@Spyderturbo007

So when I nudge the hell out of WoZ with the ball in the left outlane, it flies out, hits the center post and pops back into the PF because I was holding up the left flipper, that’s illegal?

It happens a lot more than you’d think. So much so, that I always hold up the left flipper and shake the hell out of the machine.

There was a similar discussion regarding Wheel of Fortune and what’s legal to do in the outlane/below the flipper area.

You can nudge the hell out of WoZ in the left lane area with the purpose of triggering the There’s No Place Like Home rule. Outside of that area, any nudging done to bring the ball back into play is considered a death save.

[Austin]

@pinwizj

Outside of that area

What’s that smell!?! Must be INTENT!

[pinwizj]

@Austin

What’s that smell!?! Must be INTENT!

Q: “Did you induce that lazarus”

A: “No” → play on
A: “Yes” → DQ’d

It’s just that easy . . . just ask the player

[raydaypinball]

Does holding a flipper up count as inducing?

[pinwizj]

@raydaypinball

Does holding a flipper up count as inducing?

No. Only the act of nudging influences the ball. You are more than welcome to set your flippers however you want to prepare for a ball bouncing back into play on its own accord.

For games like WOF you should keep your flippers down if you plan on nudging the crap out of the game trying for the Free Spin lane as to not accidentally death save.

Has Leo Daniels taught you guys anything???