Games not displaying dangers


#21

I think… with so many tournaments and competitors these days, tilt warnings are important enough they should be enumerated using playfield inserts (at least one lamp each for the last two warnings). Especially if games are going to start awarding more warnings like Oktoberfest’s stein (or Dr. Dude)


#22

Speaking for Williams System 11 and WPC platforms, the games can legitimately tilt with only one warning alerted. Regardless of settings.

The tilt system is a dual implementation. One based on counting and one based on time.

The count system is switch closures (on-edge trigger) counting down warnings to an ultimate tilt. This is a nudging-in-normal-play restriction.

The timer system is switch closure duration (on-time trigger) going to tilt on expiration. This is a lifing-the-game-up restriction. This will normally provide one tilt warning too (the edge). But that might be surpressed due to priority for other things.

Now, with this knowledge in mind, one can imaging all kinds of bullshit, if the tilt mech is so out of shape, it can occationally lean against the ring in a rest or near-rest position. Or when you have bugs in the matrix. Or if the general condition of the game is worn, with switch detection being sensitive to electrical noise.

I have from time to time experienced direct tilt with a start-of-ball ball in the shooter lane on WPC games. And taken great note of this. It is like a holy grail bug to find. It shouldn’t happen. The tilt warnings reserve should be reset at this point.

In any case. A healthy and properly calibrated tilt mech might take care of everything.

BTW. A game should definetly be tiltable with a ball in shooter lane. Just think of it, when people would learn otherwise on your dodgy location. That is a no brainer. Also, what if the switch gets stuck closed. What would make sense is a smarter system preventing tilt-throughs. Delaying start-of-ball. Masking off tilt bob hits for a little while. Or a few hits.


#23

This is emulating the ball roll tilt that some other games have, using a physical ball to detect lifting. The tilt sensor has to remain fully engaged for about 1s for this to trigger. WPC games even have a separate audit for this (“Ball Roll Tilts” vs. “Tilts”). You can always check that audit to see if it’s happening. (EDIT: it’s in the secret audit menu, so it’s not that easily accessible. Search for ‘wpc pinball hidden menu’ if you’re not familiar with this.)


#24

I’m 99% sure ball roll is present in whitestar, sam, and presumably spike.

I’m 100% certain it’s in JJP. :wink:

Fun fact about whitestar games (I don’t remember if this was transferred to sam or not): If a tilt is stuck closed at ball start, you will instantly get a warning on ball serve, then you will get to play for one minute, then the game will auto-tilt (unless you drain first, obviously). So, if you’ve ever noticed that, that’s why.

I don’t know how far back that behavior goes; definitely since Sharkey’s, probably most of whitestar, and perhaps even in pre-whitestar.


#25

Oh dear. Does the game infact indicate auto-tilt somehow. This opens up for the bitch’iest tilt though sneak of them all.

“Auto-tilt”, now I have heard that.


#26

Sometimes the answer is right in front of your nose and you cannot see it.

A stock tilt switch on WPC will not prevent the game from going to next player, will serve the ball and will insta-tilt. No tilt warnings. Well, there you have it.


#27

what the??? seriously?


#28

Link this to the “video review rulings” concept. Any ball that starts with a danger-through and ends in a phantom tilt shall be reviewed to see if it occurred at precisely the 60 second mark. :sweat_smile:


#29

If the game is nudged and the manual (or anything else) slides over into the tilt bob, this allows the game to continue making money. I see the logic, but haven’t run into it that I remember. I have seen manuals slide over into tilt bobs.


#30

Interesting. Now I understand the real-world edge case for this.
If such a Tilt timer is triggered, does the game provide any kind of notice to the player that they’re playing under such a timer until the Auto-tilt?


#31

fb0


#32

I could see this working for the next Heads-Up Challenge. Tape the tilt bob to the ring and you have a ready-made “3 minute drill”, but you’re not guaranteed a full minute each ball. Eliminates the need for an official with a stopwatch too!


#33

We played a 4 player game on T3 for league where the manual slid into the tilt bob. Game would keep tilting out player after player.


#34

From watching some of City Champ yesterday, I learned that MM and MB will auto-launch the ball if you take a danger in the shooter lane.

Does this mean danger-through is plunging the next player’s ball, so DQ?


#35

This would not be a play-out-of-turn DQ, because the first player never touched the machine during the other player’s turn. Nor would it be a tilt-through DQ, because there was no tilt.

Major malfunction, plus a warning to the player that if they do it again it will be treated as a tilt-through. (Language about warning under “Player Errors”)


#36

So the next player doesn’t have the option to continue play? It isn’t far-fetched that he just would do that. If he does, it might be the 3rd or 4th player that needs to protect themselves by calling TD. This isn’t pretty.


#37

As soon as the player assumes control of the machine, they are responsible for the current game state and would not be compensated if that game state led to a lost ball. Assume control at your own risk.


#38

But they’re not “in control” until the ball hits the flipper, so if the game auto-launches, the player quickly steps up to the game, but then the ball bounces out the outlane, then a compensation ball is awarded? Or does the “in control” part of the rules only apply to another player plunging the wrong ball?


#39

The rule refers to taking control of the machine, not getting control of the ball.

Touching the machine would indicate taking control.

If you want to play that autolaunched ball, don’t touch the machine until you can determine it won’t house you.


#40

According to the IFPA/PAPA rules a player is not “in control” until the ball makes contact with a flipper. And the last sentence here seems to imply that the player can change his or her mind before they are “in control”. That is to say the player can choose to take control but then change his/her mind before the ball contacts a flipper. The rule doesn’t mention anything about touching or not touching the machine. Am I not understanding this correctly?

A player who plays out of turn in a multiplayer game will receive a score of zero. The affected player may choose to take over the ball in play, if possible, or he or she may choose to have the incident treated as a major malfunction. In the event the player takes over, he or she shall be deemed “in control” after declaring his or her intent, taking his or her position at the table, and making contact with the ball via the flippers. The affected player may not change his or her mind once he or she is “in control”.