Deep cuts of semi-useful pinball knowledge

[JoeTheDragon]

@gdd

On Big Guns you can do a no-swtich valid playfield drain only once in a ball. If you try to do it a second time, you will go to bonus, even though your score is flashing on the screen.

also after an lock no valid playfield check.

[multibrawlr]

On LOTR, you can play all three main multiballs with the same Gollum Multiball.

You do this by qualifying all 3 multiballs, then stack one of them with Gollum. Each time you return to single-ball play, start any of the remaining two multiballs during the grace period; if you’re fast enough, Gollum will be “resurrected” by the new multiball as the last one ends.

[keefer]

While true and intentional, it only really matters if you’re good at exploiting gollum for the 2x, which I’ve found most people are not.

[ryanwanger]

I’d always thought that the 2x and 0.5x cancel out and I shouldn’t worry about it. But I guess it actually would average out to 1.25x scoring overall, right? (Unless perhaps it’s not an even amount of time spent between the two states).

[raydaypinball]

Use the light state to guide you! Flashing Gollum light = 2x, solid = .5x

[stevevt]

In Jack-Bot, the super jackpot shot is worth 2 jackpots – not 3 jackpots.

I think the confusion comes because you get 3 jackpots’ worth of points for the 2 shots needed to collect it – A) single jackpot; then B) double (“super!”) jackpot.

It’s also possible that I’m confused about people being confused and nobody is actually confused about this rule.

[ryanwanger]

But…are you getting more points than if you shot two different jackpots spaced a few seconds apart?

[stevevt]

Of course. Super = 2x value and double progression toward Mega Visor. Regular jackpot = 1x value and 1x progression toward Mega Visor.

I’m just clarifying that a super jackpot in Jack-Bot is not a triple jackpot. It’s a double jackpot.

[gdd]

I thought it was “That jackpot plus the next one in the series”. So if you hit The third jackpot as a super, you get the points of three + four, and the next one you get is the fifth. So technically its not “double” I think.

In terms of advantage, to me, the biggest thing is that you can get four jackpots from two lit eyeballs without having to relight.

[stevevt]

@gdd

So technically its not “double” I think.

How about it’s worth the “next two jackpots”? I get what you’re saying and I agree. The idea I’m correcting is that it’s worth the next three jackpots, which I’m almost sure some people believe.

Here’s the jackpot progression, which I’m sure you know.

The first Jack-Bot you score in a game is 50M; future Jack-bots increase in value by 25M each time, so that the eleventh Jack-bot is 300M. Then the value starts advancing by 50M for each Jack-bot, so that the fifteenth and final Jack-bot is 500M.

So lets say your next jackpot value is 150 million. You collect this jackpot then immediately collect a super jackpot. I think that some people believe the super will be worth 200M + 250M + 300M. It is in fact worth 200M + 250M (plus 2 advancements toward Mega Visor).

[Frisbez]

I’m still not sure about this

The first Super is worth 225M.

First regular Jackbot is 50M and second is 75M.

That’s 75x3 or 100M+125M (3rd+4th regular jackbots) not 50M + 75Mx2.

[ryanwanger]

@stevevt

Of course. Super = 2x value and double progression toward Mega Visor. Regular jackpot = 1x value and 1x progression toward Mega Visor.

Cool, thanks. I wasn’t sure. I’ve never been to Mega Visor. But I spent a lot of time on Jackbot last weekend, so I’m inspired to fill in my knowledge gaps.

[stevevt]

This is getting interesting. After you collect this earliest possible super, the next jackpot value is 125 million and you have 12 jackpots until Megavisor.

The display shows 225M for the super, but I’m pretty sure it’s showing the value you got for the 2 shots combined. This sounds crazy, but start here:

(6:06:32)
P3 has 194M and restarts MB. Then P3 gets a single JP followed by the super JP. P3’s score then sits at 439M. This is 245M total for the flail/lock points (20M), the single (50M), and the super JP (175M).

Long story short: Jack-bot lies.

[stevevt]

Exhibit B:

We can see that P1s score (after a 50M jackpot) is 241M.

P1 then does the following:

• a few flail points
• 75M single jackpot
• 100M single jackpot
• a super jackpot that the machine shows as “375M”

If the super jackpot shot by itself were worth 375M, P1 should have at least 241M + 75M + 100M + 375M. This total is 791M, and assumes no flail points.

P1 actually has 717M at the end of the multiball, which I break down as follows:

• 241M (starting score)
• 26M in flail points
• 75M single jackpot
• 100M single jackpot
• 275M super jackpot

Jackpot be lying.

[Frisbez]

I think this is the correct answer. The second super is worth 450M after you collect the first. 125M+150M+175M.

Therefore a super Jackbot is worth the value of your next two jackbots (not exactly 2x, jackbot).

The value that gets displayed is the total value you receive. Regular Jackbot + next two jackbots from super.

[stevevt]

@Frisbez

The value that gets displayed is the total value you receive. Regular Jackbot + next two jackbots from super.

Yes. And it’s of course very confusing because it happens in multiball, it always involves pretty large numbers, and also the player score almost never gets displayed when good things are happening. It’s a sneaky thing that I thought qualified as a deep cut.

[stevevt]

@Frisbez

Therefore a super Jackbot is worth the value of your next two jackbots (not exactly 2x, jackbot).

For the record, this is what I wrote above:

@stevevt

In Jack-Bot, the super jackpot shot is worth 2 jackpots – not 3 jackpots.

I stand by it, though it would have been more clear to say “the next 2 jackpots”.

[keefer]

@stevevt

In Jack-Bot, the super jackpot shot is worth 2 jackpots – not 3 jackpots.

TECNICALLY, this is correct. Because if you didn’t make the super, you’d still get the single.

Confusion perhaps comes in because you only see the super amount, which is the sum of the NEXT 3 JACKPOTS, starting at the current jackpot level.

Keep in mind, when getting a super, the game never shows you the original jackpot score. So I would argue that it is correct in showing you the next 3 combined since you never saw the first.

The next 3 is important, because there are cases where it’s not just “3x the next jackpot.” The edge case of being at 275M, the super is worth 275 + 300 + 350 (925M, not 900M). The edge case of being at 450M, the super is worth 1.45B (450M + 500M + 500M) not 1.5B.

This is all inarguable, so don’t try. The only arguing to be done is whether it’s showing you a truly accurate value, and I personally am fine with what it shows you. Since you don’t see the original value, showing all 3 is OK.

@stevevt

So lets say your next jackpot value is 150 million. You collect this jackpot then immediately collect a super jackpot. I think that some people believe the super will be worth 200M + 250M + 300M. It is in fact worth 200M + 250M (plus 2 advancements toward Mega Visor).

No. Technically the single shot is worth 175M + 200M (375M), but it will show you 525M (150 + 175 + 200). No matter how you look at it, the outcome of making the 2-lock combo is that you earned 525M total, even if you want to argue the 2nd shot is only worth 375.

[ScoutPilgrim]

Not that I don’t love math technicalities, but as per another discussion, the input window for the Secret Jackpot on Demolition Man is wide enough to allow you to hit both buttons with one hand if you’re fast enough. It’s a neat trick for one handed play

[CaptainBZarre]

On Batman Forever, when the final lock to start Multiball is lit and the Batwing is also qualified, you can load the Batwing and shoot the lock shot from there. Beginning Multiball this way increases the base Jackpot values and starts it with 4 balls in play.

Nothing in the game tells you that you can do this.