I save balls all the time on right outlane without raising the flipper. This is not a good measure of a death save.



he didn’t raise the left flipper… Good luck trying to repeat it.

I think it has to do with right-only.

I will dare to do the physics. After the bounce, the table accelerates straight left, rather than left-down, because no up-nudge. And it recoils more, because no initial left or down nudge. Those two together, the ball misses the left flipper.


I’d love to see video of that. I know the plastic aprons have changed things some, but I haven’t seen anyone do death saves without raising the left flipper. Good to hear someone here is doing death saves regularly. d;^)

I’m not good at death saves, so I don’t do them much. I take some pride in getting GC scores on location without doing them. Still plenty of folks, young and old, doing death saves regularly around here.


DeadPool right outlane with a fast moving ball often saves itself without a nudge or a raised flipper.


Just curious, does anyone know of any location operators putting a piece of deadening material on the apron at the sweet spot for death saves? Seems like it would be a simple way to eliminate the option.


If you look at JJPOTC, there is a very very small piece of metal screwed along with the wireform along the right drain. The astute viewer will notice we were getting a ton of death saves (accidental or not) from the geometry on that game during our streams, so we made an extreme last-minute decision to do something about it and Eric came up with the very elegant thing that’s on there now. Interferes with the ball just enough to mess up it happening.

Think we called the part death save baffle or something like that.


It’s clearly a death save attempt, so yeah, if a TD saw it, sure, some discipline could have been warranted if the TD made the call. Even though he walked away. It was over anyway, didn’t matter or affect the results, and was clearly a frustration move, which is probably why the player did it.

But here’s the thang Skip…and this continues to come up time and again as people watch these streams.

I don’t think streams should be used to hand out discipline, nor should commentators be cops in these situations. They will commentate on it, sure, but I don’t see how any of this should be used to discipline players, or even bring such information to the TDs’ attention. To expect the booth to police this stuff or be allowed to police this stuff - or for the home audience on a chat to be asked to or allowed to police this stuff - is not only unrealistic, it’s unfair.

What about all of the other groups that aren’t being filmed or scrutinized by the booth or the home audience? Hardly seems fair that a player in a different group could make the same frustration move and escape any kind of discipline, while the one on camera does.

If people want replay or streaming judgement calls to become a thing, that’s gotta become part of the rules. ANd, to do it fairly, all games really need to be monitored at all times by a judge with the authority to call it, not just a bunch of guys doing their job to entertain and delight the home audience.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen John Madden call down to the field refs and let them know someone jumped offsides when it wasn’t called, and had a flag thrown as a result. Seems like the same thing here.


Yeah I’ve tried to death save on a Dialed In, and it ain’t happening.


I pretty much agree with you regarding spectators and commentators 100%. And I don’t think anyone here is retroactively calling for alteration of results or anything.

We’re definitely not at the level where any of this matters with life-changing money or anything. If we were, you can be damn sure there’d be refs watching every game being played individually.

An interesting recent phenomenon, though, is that I guess golf viewers have called in to alert tournament officials about transgressions caught on video, and the TDs have in fact assessed penalties that they’ve been alerted to. Not sure how I feel about that, but ti’s interesting. I’m not an avid golfer or golf watcher in any way, just an interesting side note.


I’ve heard about the golf thing. Maybe 20 years ago is the first time I heard about it.

Don’t really think it’s fair in golf either. I would hope they at least have some written rules in place as far as how they deal with that. But then I don’t really care as I’m not an avid golfer or watcher, or golf commentator for that matter!


Disappointing to see so many saying a yellow card was called for. IMO, it was a frustration shove, not an attempt at a save or a rage tilt. If you are going to give that a yellow card, then any show of emotion at all should get a yellow card.

If you back up 24 seconds in that video, you’ll see that he got a tilt warning for a big move. The tilt was set as it should have been, it allowed one big move. If he hadn’t gotten that first warning, his shove at the end likely wouldn’t have tilted. He was already walking away, so nothing would’ve changed. No tilt, ball drains.

If you back up about 2 minutes, you’ll hear the announcers say that the game has lightning flipper bats, which can be frustrating on a game that shouldn’t have them. The shorter lighting bats likely contributed to this happening too.

Was this the event where several of the games had lightning bats that normally wouldn’t? I think I watched some of this.


Since we’re talking about death saves. What about the WOZ left outlane drain that bounces off the pop bumper/slingshot in the outlane and rockets and hits the center post and back in play, is that a death save? Also does it matter if I hold the flipper up while it’s bouncing around over there to make it easier for it to happen?


While it didn’t change anything with the event, the video below definitely led to some rules being re-written. Which is ironic as the move clearly didn’t work.


I think as long as the player isn’t nudging to influence the ball back into play, it’s fair game.


But aren’t you supposed to be nudging when it’s over there in the hopes to get all the targets? Also does it matter if I hold the flipper up in the hopes it will hit the center post and bounce up?


I’ve seen people get yellow cards for stomping the ground too hard after bad drain, and I’m also fine with it. If you can’t control yourself enough to not rage tilt a game, don’t play it.




The infraction being discussed is whether he death saved, not whether he showed emotion. Go back and watch again and pay close attention to his body movements. It was more than just a shove. It was a very specific left, then right movement as the ball approached the apron from a right outlane drain. That is a death save.


I think holding the flipper up is fine.

I think this rule was made before WOZ came out.

If the ball comes back into play and all your nudging occurred over by the pop bumper, that’s fine. But if you nudge after it leaves there to try and get it to hit off the post, then I think that’s a no no.