Different example: Expo (Chicago flavor). There aren’t hard stops on the location, but it sucks to wait two or three hours for your next match in Classics while your opponent is playing in Main or vice versa. Yes, people who’ve been there before know this, but a newcomer wouldn’t and it’s not mentioned in the rules. This is another case where I think the "choose 1 but no waiting " is the better path.
But if it stated that you can do both. And then an unforeseen change forces an over lap then.
The choice should do both at your own risk or pick what one you want to do with an refund for the missed one.
And the DQ rules need to state the over lap rule UP FRONT AS WELL.
and when the rules say we will wait then something forces and HARD STOP TIME then what Ruling must be made to make it fair for all?
#1 Reason I don’t participate in the Expo tourney are the wait times. Also once you start playing you are expected to play until you lose. No breaks what-so-ever unless your opponent is playing in classic finals match at the time.
Why force people to choose at the beginning of Main rather than the later starting playoffs?
I feel like these sorts of threads need to explicitly state up front “We are using IFPA rules” because that’s rarely stated, and everyone seems to assume they are. With respect to the “wait 60 seconds and plunge” vs. “one warning, then machine score of zero” - both are perfectly acceptable, depending on what your tournament rules actually say.
If the tournament rules don’t say, then they need to, even if it’s a catch-all like “for all other rulings, we will be using IFPA rules.”
Because if they choose Classics over main we need to be able to slot other people in qualifying into the finals.
If I’ve qualified for both Classics and Main, and then choose to play only in one of them, I’d be extremely pissed off if I was bumped out of the position I’d qualified in for somebody else who didn’t actually qualify for the finals.
I would expect to take my place in the finals and, if I wasn’t present, either have my ball plunged or given a zero on that machine. Anything else just doesn’t seem right.
I disagree. When it can cost up to a thousand dollars in hotels and flights, just to be able to play one or two events, that’s frustrating especially if you have one bad day. I was thinking about this during pinburgh. I arrived late and couldn’t play any Wednesday events around Pittsburgh. That means as a dude I can play in two tournaments over 4 days. One with a limited entry format and one with a fixed matchplay format.
In Europe and Australia they know people are traveling so they pack an event or more a day over a week, so that the chances for winning/glory/success are increased. IMHO a variety of events makes the trip worth it.
That seems excessively prohibitive. Why force them to choose one when they can reasonably do two, if they get eliminated in the early rounds of Main? You wouldn’t even know you’d qualified for Classics until the later rounds (probably the semis?).
Unless the goal is to prevent people from holding up the Main playoffs by trying to qualify for Classics while they are still competing, but in that case you have the 60-second rule. Seems overly harsh to stop people from participating in both, if it can be done reasonably.
The amount of money spent on hotels and other amenities during a players vacation should never be considered when planning tournaments. Tournaments arent vacation destinations, and TDs arent travel directors. Their focus is on the tournament and the tournament only. TPF is sixty dollars for the tourney, sixty dollars for show entry. The TDs should do their best to make sure everyone gets their moneys worth at the tourney. It is not their responsibility to cram as many tournaments with as many formats into as little time as possible so that you can feel better about the cost of plane tickets, hotel, food, and whatever else. The hotel is responsible for whether or not the room was worth the cost not the TDs. Same with your flight and meal costs.
I disagree. It all depends on your goal. Yes, the TD should be concerned about running the best event possible, but the definition of “best” is going to differ for different priorities.
If you’re looking to attract a number of visitors from out of town because your area doesn’t have the population to support a large tournament otherwise, then it makes sense to take into consideration the needs of those travellers.
That might mean running a number of tournaments that could have conflicting schedules, but then you need to figure out how to deal with that.
Not really though, if said travelers are going to factor in their own personal spending choices into their opinion of youre event.
I totally understand needing to have a draw to influence more people to travel to your event. What im against is the narrative that if i flew to seattle for a twenty dollar tournament and the TD gets 0% of that money, where do i get off criticizing their format because " I spent X on plane tickets, Y on hotel costs, and Z on other food and stuff".
In this case, it appears as if the TDs followed your same logic so much so that they ended up biting off more than they could chew and created the problem of “is this worth it” instead of preventing it.
Sounds like plenty
I’m with you there. If you choose to attend an event knowing the format, prizes, costs, etc. then you shouldn’t complain about the expenses. I guess what I’m trying to say is that there’s nothing wrong with trying to incentivize travel, if done well.
I qualified in both of the tournaments on Sunday and I had no issue on how this was addressed. Did it suck having to plunge or give up 4 balls in the first round in Classics sure it did but it was better than the alternative of not being able to play at all. It didn’t affect my play on the main because I went in knowing that I was going to concentrate my focus on there and just do what I could in Classics to try to move on. Luckily for both me and Jeff we survived and made it through. The Classics actually ended just after 8 so did they need to enforce the 60 second rule, well we never know but in the end the TD’s made the best decision they could at the time, sometimes you just need to roll with it. It is very difficult for a person to qualify in the first place as I was only able to use 8 entries before the main playoffs started and a number of us were in that same position who played in main. I don’t have a solution for this but glad they did have the third Classics tournament as it gives many other players another chance to play tournament pinball on Sunday.
If they get eliminated from Main Finals and are still able to qualify for classics, they are no longer playing in both, so they are free to play classics finals.
But by playing in the Main they are stating that they are playing in the main. So if the time comes for classic finals to start they will automatically be skipped and the next person in qualifying will be added to the classic finals.
In contrast, despite TPF being a very well run Tournament, I have chosen not to go back because I didn’t enjoy the experience of the limited entry tournament the first year I went. I basically used all my entries on Friday (actually I saved a few to have something to do on Saturday, but could have used them all). I don’t really enjoy shows, so if I am travelling to a tournament I want to “play” as much as possible (even if most of that time is waiting in lines). I no longer travel for limited entry tournaments and I have a preference to events with classics divisions. Everyone has their own preferences, luckily there are many options out there.
I agree on this sentiment - I have a hard time putting money on 10-20 games, for limited entry I restrict my travel to the same coast I live on - there are always exceptions if I truly love the atmosphere of the people in an area, but I don’t enjoy any of my time on the showroom floor waiting in line to play.
I think what you did for this tournament was fair and well thought out - I’m sure you will find ways to address this next year - seems like a fun event that I plan on trying to make soon enough!
Might I ask why this rule exists (be gentle)?