Last night in league finals we had an interesting “stuck ball”. While the player was in Shame MB he was able to complete penguin for which the crane retracted. As it did so one ball got caught by the crane and held their. He played for a little while like this and then cradled up as it was requested for a ruling by one of the players. He felt it was a held ball like you do when catching a ball under a upper PF flipper or behind a drop assembly that raises (dirty pool) while the other player felt it was a stuck ball.
The two league officials on site conferred with each other as their was some debate on the ruling. The final ruling was to get a staff member (playing in an arcade) remove the glass so we could put the ball on the right flipper since Spike games don’t kill the flippers when the door is removed.
We figured we would post this here to get others opinions on the situation.
Was this the correct ruling and if we weren’t able to pull the glass would the ruling be that the player would have to drain their other ball to initiate a ball search?
The verbiage behind getting a ball stuck under an upper PF flipper has to do with being able to release the ball through PLAYER ACTION:
“In situations where a ball is trapped in a way that it can be released through player action other than shaking or bumping – for example, a ball at rest underneath a flipper or any other mechanism which the player controls – this is not deemed to be a stuck ball”
As for trying to argue a “Dirty Pool” situation there’s explicit verbiage over how this is determined, and it has to do with there being software written into the game for that exact situation:
“In multiball, some games offer the opportunity to stick a ball in an area that can only be freed if the player uses another ball to free it. Examples include getting a ball stuck behind a visor on games including Attack From Mars, Jackbot and Spiderman. The ruling in this situation is based on whether the game has software written into it to specifically address the mode or situation. On Attack from Mars and Jack*Bot, the Dirty Pool rule is specifically written for that situation. In these cases the ball behind the visor would NOT be considered stuck and players would continue to play on. On Spiderman however, since there is no game rule written for that situation, this would be considered a stuck ball and the player should attempt to trap the other ball(s) in play and request assistance.”
This is a stuck ball, plain and simple, so you made the right call.
If you couldn’t pull the glass off you’re absolutely right on that as well . . . drain the other ball, and ball search will free this stuck ball.
What about when the ball gets stuck between the wrecking ball and the side, but when the wrecking ball is in the furthest right-most position (available to be shot as the final wrecking ball shot during Penguin)? In this case, the player would be able to release the ball by striking the wrecking ball one more time.
There’s no special rule designed into the game for that situation . . . ‘dirty pool’ style.
To me this is no different then being one shot away from starting a multiball on any game, where surely starting the multiball will ‘clear the stuck ball’.
Based off the below it sounds like it would be play on.
That is diffidently an interesting strategy and seems like it could be repeatable by avoiding that shot and then shooting the left orbit until you get a feed down the right orbit from the pops.
“No attempts should be made by the player to continue shooting shots around the playfield trying to free the stuck ball if that ball is deemed to be stuck under this rule.”
Unless the ball being stuck in that situation triggers a unique game rule for exactly that situation . . . it’s a stuck ball and has to be dealt with immediately.
Unless I’m missing a joke here, the phurbas are player controlled and thus not deemed a stuck ball.
“In situations where a ball is trapped in a way that it can be released through player action other than shaking or bumping – for example, a ball at rest underneath a flipper or any other mechanism which the player controls – this is not deemed to be a stuck ball”
No joke. My argument is that can intentionally and directly shoot the ball out of its “stuck” position, similar to being able to intentionally press a button to unstick a phurba-stucky. This isn’t like a ball that’s stuck somewhere in the upper playfield (pops) where I need to shoot an orbit, and hope that the control gates will stop the ball, and hope the ball ricochets into the stuck ball. This is a direct, player-controlled shot.
I could argue either way on this one – so I’m curious to see what others think.
A player controlled device is very different from a feature controlled by a made shot. If you allowed someone to shoot at the crane in your example, how many misses and points earned would be permitted before cutting them off? What if they “accidentally missed” and collected other high scoring shots? It just makes more sense not to allow it.
I’d argue that it can skillfully be obtained and controlled. Since it is repeatable and the player can release the ball at any give time under their own control then it doesn’t feel stuck to me and shouldn’t be ruled a stuck ball.
Now if you pull this BS off against me in a tournament then I may temporarily change my mind
What if the player had a Gadget available? Then pressing the center button could collect that shot and release the ball. (not positive on the rules in what shot would be awarded in this situation thus the “could”)
LMAO . . . I feel like this verbiage is prettttttttty explicit:
“No attempts should be made by the player to continue shooting shots around the playfield trying to free the stuck ball if that ball is deemed to be stuck under this rule.”
Now if the rules were:
“No attempts should be made by the player to continue shooting shots around the playfield trying to free the stuck ball if that ball is deemed to be stuck under this rule, unless it’s a direct, player-controlled shot.”
You might be able to convince me to move on this one.
At least I did learn a new term, I’ve never heard of a shot explained as direct or indirect, or player-controlled or not player-controlled
Is it a direct, player-controlled center button? Or an indirect one?
The ball is stuck. A TD needs to free that stuck ball. I would possibly allow the player to hit the Gadget button immediately to free the stuck ball and continue their multiball, but I absolutely would not allow them to argue that they can continue playing their 1-ball multiball ‘for free’ with the insurance policy of being able to use the Gadget button later to free the stuck ball.
This crane trap was one of the first things that happened to me on BM66. My first thought was “Damn, they didn’t get this fixed from Batman Dark Knight”.
I’m sure this has been covered in other threads elsewhere but I just wanted to receive a definitive rules answer:
Is there ever a time when a player who has a (non-software supported) stuck ball during multiball is allowed to shoot at that stuck ball in an attempt to free it? After trapping up the non-stuck ball(s), the player can nudge at own risk as an attempt to free the stuck ball. If the player is unable/unwilling to free the stuck ball and there is not access to the keys of the machine, the player is required to then drain the trapped balls to allow the machine to do a ball search. The player is not allowed to use the trapped ball(s) to shoot toward the stuck ball in an attempt to free it. Is that correct?
In the stuck balls section of the rules, I did not see verbiage that described the draining of trapped balls to allow a machine-induced ball search when access to the machine is limited so I wanted to make sure I understood this correctly.
If our current verbiage isn’t clear enough that you can’t shoot at stuck balls to try and free them, let me know. I’m not sure how we can make this ‘more clear’.
“No attempts should be made by the player to continue shooting shots around the playfield trying to free the stuck ball if that ball is deemed to be stuck under this rule.”
This is where you have to remember that IFPAPA writes rules for “our events”. So we will ALWAYS have keys and access to machines to be able to deal with stuck balls. Often times on location a stuck ball can lead to invoking the CATASTROPHIC MALFUNCTION rules, which is a completely different ruling section.
If I was running an event without keys, then yes I would ask the player to drain those balls, hope that a ball search gets the ball unstuck. If not, hope that shaking it even with tilting gets the ball unstuck. As you move along this path you’ll go from Minor Malfunction rules, to Major Malfunction rules, to Catastrophic Malfunction rules depending on what that stuck ball does as you move down the list of ‘what to do’.
I’m not intimately familiar with the crane rules on BM66 or BDK, but I was under the impression it will move to a new spot if it was not hit in its current position for some seconds. I am guessing that once all shots but one are complete, it will remain in its last spot until hit?
For clarity, can we assume a ball is NOT stuck if it is known that the device holding it will eventually move on its own with no player interaction? Say, Dracula in MB, or Mick in RS?
