New pinball skills tutorial videos: looking for feedback from high level players

[ABE_FLIPS]

Yeah, basically you keep the momentum of the ball if it comes from an inlane feed.
And you will have less power from a cradled position.

[phishrace]

@ABE_FLIPS

The Quorra Shot is a real good example

You might want to contrast that with shots that are harder on the fly, easier from a cradle. The two ramps on Mando pro are great examples of this. Both are probably easier from a cradled backhand shot. Much harder on the fly, or even cradled from the natural flipper (left flipper right ramp). Scoop is stupid easy from a left backhand cradle too, much harder on the fly.

[ABE_FLIPS]

That’s true, but this doesn’t contradict the theory of ball speed. The faster a ball rolls down the inlane, the shorter the timeframe for the shots becomes. This means the shots are getting harder. Backhands are often easier by nature and are safer (depending on the angle…).

[ABE_FLIPS]

I conducted a path comparison between shots from a cradle and shots from an inlane feed. The balls don’t fly in curves, but the angle changes slightly due to the different timing.

[ABE_FLIPS]

Hey there, I’m still writing on the skript and I came across special technique with Johannes that I wanted to briefly discuss with you. Do you also use nudging from more of an downward angle to “neutralize” the tilt pendulum at the moment of the impact?

[BMU]

Many players do. Andy Rosa for one has been using that technique prominently for many years. Look for videos with him.

[ANM]

the “Rosa Shimmy,” I believe it’s called

[ABE_FLIPS]

Hey there,

As I progress with the film, I’m coming across my old enemy… “how to nudge the slings.”
I’ve heard and talked a lot about it, but even top players seem to just do what they do and can’t really explain it exactly.

Here is what I’ve found out so far, also seen in the video:

sling nudging

#1 No nudging to see the default ball path
#2 Nudging sideways, away from the ball to guide it down to the flippers (rarely seen in competition, anyone else uses this?)

#3 Here’s a different feed coming higher at the sling; again, no nudging to see the default ball path
#4 Same feed Nudging up, no change in ball path! I see a lot of folks nudging up, why? (did I do it wrong?)
#5 Nudging right, the ball shoots more upwards
#6 Nudging left again, the ball comes lower
#7 Watch how the ball touches the sling at its 3rd contact; the mechanical plastic pusher shoots the ball way up because the ball hits very close it. For me, those bounces make it even harder to anticipate the sling shots.

I try to get the ball higher if it comes at the top half/third of the slingshot, so it shoots higher than the outlanes.
If the ball comes to the lower third of the sling, I nudge away from the ball, trying to get it down to the flippers instead of sling town.

Anyone has more information on how to nudge the slings? You also can send a PM if you like

[chuckwurt]

@ABE_FLIPS

Same feed Nudging up, no change in ball path! I see a lot of folks nudging up, why? (did I do it wrong?)

Sometimes if timed right, it can help work the ball lower on the slings.

You also have to remember that slings aren’t played out the same on most games. So you likely need to know what nudge works best on all different layouts.

[ABE_FLIPS]

Do you have a term for these kinds of saves?I explain them in the Shatzing chapter; however, it’s a hybrid of Shatz/Slap/Nudging.

Thanks in advance

Shatz Slap?

[Adam]

These are all just one handed slap saves… The ball mostly parks in the opposite in-lane which makes it “shatz-y”, but that’s more of cause and effect rather than intent. The key to all of these saves is that you only flip the relevant flipper. This is typically WAY better than the classic double flipper slap save because (a) the ball won’t ever hit “under” the other flipper because that flipper isn’t raised and (b) the ball won’t be flung back into the main playfield where chaos will still ensue. As seen, the best value proposition of the one flipper slap is that the ball typically just goes over to the other flipper/inlane. The downside of the one flipper slap is when the flipper contact and/or the angle of the approaching ball doesn’t have enough energy to bring the ball back into play. #YMMV. Great Stuff! Can’t wait to see the final product.

[mwelsh]

I’ve heard them called “shatz saves” or simply “one-handed slaps”. There’s some discussion here:

Can you aim your slap saves?

There’s been a lot of talk and attention lately to doing one handed slap saves as a way to save the ball without getting it out of control. Whereas a traditional slap save involves hitting both flippers, one just after the other. I am trying to learn to do the single flip, but my brain is just programmed to hit both flippers. I find that quite often when I do a slap save, instead of the ball flying off wildly in some random direction, it goes to a major shot like a ramp or scoop, etc. Often the…

edit: and here:

Slap save technique tips?

One flipper slap saves are almost always going to put you in better shape than two flipper. I had to break myself out of the “one-two” slaps and saw a big difference in the type of control it results in. Like you said, flipping both puts you at risk of “saving” it to the underside of the opposite flipper, or at best, the second flipper throwing the “saved” ball out of control, and back at risk of draining. Practicing one-handed is a good way to help break this habit. When you’re making the sla…

[ABE_FLIPS]

Hey Adam! I’ve understood the theory and I know the pros and cons, thanks for taking the time . But there is definitely a difference compared to a standard single slap save. Johannes initiates the nudge with the opposite hand by shifting the machine BEFORE he flips, which gives him significantly more reach. The timing is also a bit different, and there is no slap to be seen in the first examples, which should be characteristic of a slap save, which doesn’t mean you can’t include a Slap in this technique too. For me, the technique feels more like a shatz. That said, we don’t really need an exact term for it. I just wanted to make sure I’m not messing up the terminology.
I’m so excited for the film… can’t wait!

@mwelsh thanks for the info!

[raydaypinball]

Not to put Daniele on blast but his final ball on Iron Maiden in high stakes at INDISC ended due to a double slap that should’ve been a single slap. Might make for a good example haha

[ABE_FLIPS]

Yeah, single slaps are superior if you don’t need the second flipper for safety. I sometimes find myself double slapping when I’m unsure if a single slap will be enough. I’ve noticed this among top players as well.

Also, slap saves have many nuances due to different timing possibilities and angles of incidence of the ball. For example you might have seen those extremely fast double slaps, where the ball shoots away very quickly.

Here you can see some different styles. Note: no ‘Shatz Saves’ here.

slaps

[ABE_FLIPS]

Here are examples of single slaps. Note that this is just from one game; imagine how many out-of-control balls double slaps could have caused. Also, notice how Keith often initiates the slaps with his other hand when more reach is needed.

Elvin Saves

[ABE_FLIPS]

I have a question regarding stiff machines. On some machines, my nudges seem to have very little effect because of that. What is your experience with such machines? If you play on one during tournaments, how do you adjust your nudges accordingly?

Personally, I try to be more precise, with harder and shorter nudges, since these machines have much less give to them. I’ve seen players who can nudge those machines very effectively. To me it feels like the rubbers are dead.