Double Elimination TGP help

General
1

The TGP Guide says:

Double Elimination
Best-of-3 Matches for WINNERS bracket, Best-of-1 Matches for LOSERS bracket bracket
…
10-19 players → 10 games towards TGP

This is assuming there are no byes.

I came up with a spreadsheet that shows it should be 13 games towards TGP rather than 10.

Besides all of the math, 10 just doesn’t make sense.

If the loser of the losers bracket comes back to win it, the MINIMUM number of games it takes them is:

  • 2 - Lose 0-2 in the first round of the winners bracket
  • 6 - Win from the beginning the losers bracket to the end
  • 2 - Win 2-0 in the Winner of Winner vs Winner of Loser match
  • 1 - Win the ultimate final match to give the WofW their second elimination
  • Total: 11

But really those “Best of 3” rounds are counted as 2.5 games towards TGP since the WPPR rules say

  • FINALS/PLAYOFFS COMPONENT
    The TGP will be based on the expected number of meaningful games that the winner of a tournament will play, with 4% added to the TGP for each meaningful game played.

With that EV math the shortest path for the Loser of Losers is:

  • 2.5 - Lose in a best of 3 match in the first round of the winners bracket
  • 6 - Win from the beginning the losers bracket to the end
  • 2.5 - Win in a best of 3 match in the Winner of Winner vs Winner of Loser match
  • 1 - Win the ultimate final match to give the WofW their second elimination
  • Total: 12

Using that EV math the winner of winners could win the whole tournament with 5 rounds of Best of 3: 5 x 2.5 = 12.5.

So it clearly needs to be more than the 10 games towards TGP listed in the TGP guide.

Can anyone point out the flaw in that general logic or in the more detailed calculations in my spreadsheet? Or can you show me the math and rules that ends up with 10 instead? @pinwizj?

2

Dave Stewart created the TGP Guide for us back when we made the switch to WPPR v5.0. Here’s the spreadsheet he sent me that we used:

3

Closing the loop on this… I synced up with Dave Stewart and provided the IFPA with some updated math.

Double elimination is now worth a little more TGP.

The IFPA has already updated the TGP guide with the new numbers and I coded a calculator and incorporated it into gameboyf9’s site.

https://gameboy9.github.io/doubleelim.html

Thanks @pinwizj for agreeing to the update!

1 Like
4

Retroactive expo boost incommg? :eyes:

5

I think expo was actually correct. This update is just for double elimination tournaments where all of the byes are in the first round. I think the ones with more complex byes were being done manually already.