Yellow Cards, behavior and penalties


#271

Good point. How’s the attendance of shows? All selling out in record times right? I think people have “voted with their feet” so then why is this an issue again then?

I do love how people come up with the most absurd examples possible to try and help prove their point though, when it’s a weak point…

AGAIN, because apparently it has not been said enough times. Obvious abuse to a game is not in debate, of which trying to break the glass would be obvious abuse. I’m not sure how much clearer I can make this and yet, that is all some of you want to harp on :frowning:


#272

I’m not going to ague the point that slamming machines needs to go, even I’ll 100% agree with that.

But you’ll never convince me that pinball needs to go 100% PC and swearing needs to be dropped.

All anyone keeps talking about is how “negative” it apparently is, but that isn’t always going to be the reaction for everyone:

So for me personally while I want to curb the aggressive slamming on the machine and yelling, you’re not going to be able to convince me that I deserve even a yellow card (which I didn’t get) for the above.

I personally have 0 issues with swearing, I see it as just another word, IMO it is the most inoffensive, offensive word out there. People give it meaning and context matters. In the context above I have 0 issues with my actions.


#273

Gotta disagree sorry. Definitely be a yellow card from me after the ball was over.


#274

Man reading this thread you’d think pinball tournaments are basically thunderdome; Violence, fire, death, unchecked aggression - basically full on anarchy with a body count.

I’m glad this kind of stuff isn’t going down on the reg at tournaments I attend, I think I’d be afraid to go!


#275

I would like to see the unified rules updated to better reflect reality, which is why I argue these points. I would like it to be more like how I interpret the pinburgh final round speech (which I might be misrepresenting, bad memory). Tensions are high, we understand stuff will happen, please try to keep it under control and treat each other with respect.

On public yellow carding, REG being yellow carded for language in Wizard Mode was the moment that highlighted the inconsistency to me. In my mind that set a really strict threshold for allowable behavior at PAPA events. But it has not reflected what I have observed.


#276

Yea I’d say that kind of cussing is uncalled for. Dropping the f-bomb in exclamation after a tough drain is one thing, but repeatedly yelling it because you can’t hit a shot? Not necessary.

If people want to play while talking like that, perhaps TDs can assign G/PG/R ratings to their tournaments to indicate what kind of behavior is expected. Some bar tournaments may be fine with colorful language.


#277

Just have a pregame speech to give some examples and the yellow card will be the confirmation to the player of what won’t be tolerated. I think that’s plenty.


#278

See that’s BS

Just because I’m “cussing” that is where the line is? So if I had said “One more Frikin shot” or “One more flipping shot” in your world I don’t get a yellow card?

Either the behavior is acceptable or it isn’t, the words I’m using should have no barring on the outcome.

Your personal preference to not hear “cuss” words is your issue not mine.

Similar to the REG situation, what he said wasn’t the issue, how he did it was. If he had yelled FRIG!! at the top of his lungs the outcome would have remained the same.


#279

But the words do matter… society has decided some words shouldn’t be yelled out in public.

Hey, I agree with you in principal… I cuss too and have no problem hearing it or with others yelling it. But I also understand what is expected in public, and repeatedly yelling the F-bomb isn’t expected. Like I said, some tournaments might have no problem with it, but many will. I would expect any tournament with kids will not want that kind of language yelled out.


#280

I disagree, society as a whole hasn’t decided. I’m part of society , my friends also use “cuss” words as part of normal conversation in my social circles, in my society it’s perfectly fine. I even use them at work all the time! There are large swaths of the world that would have no idea what fuck means.

Context matters, words don’t.

Me telling you to go fuck yourself, is not the same as me telling myself to go fuck myself. One is humorous the other is derogatory the words remain the same but the context is the difference.

But the biggest thing is you trying to impose your personal preferences on me. I’m not telling you what you can and can’t say, but that is what you are trying to do to me.


#281

Nobody is trying to impose anything on you. If rules are clearly stated (and i think a lot of that has been clearly stated in this thread) then it’s totally up to you to participate or not. Just don’t act surprised if you get yellow cards for stuff like what was in that video. I would be surprised if most tournaments didnt give a yellow card for that.


#282

If someone was yelling like that in a subway car, at the next stop a handful of people would move to the next one. I mean, everybody at Pin-Masters knows you, so nobody is concerned that the yelling guy will do something unexpectedly anti-social, but in that instant before people say “ha-ha, it’s all good,” there is something weird in the air. Like, maybe it doesn’t deserve a yellow card, and maybe it’s the problem of people that don’t like it. Maybe or maybe not? Good thing I don’t run tournaments.


#283

Yes it’s very clear I will never be participating in a tournament that you run. I’m sure we will both see that as a positive outcome.


#284

And that’s totally your right and the very reason why I make rules very clear. I don’t want to be unfair at all. Or at least I try to be as fair as possible.


#285

I don’t know, the laughing starts pretty quickly once I got going, but yes I understand what you are saying.

Which is while I’ll re-iterate, context matters.

In the context of me yelling “Just one more fucking shot!” in a subway car I would expect people to be uncomfortable in that moment, but not this one.


#286

public perception of ‘offensive’ tho is not something we can just turn off or ignore tho.

If you start yelling words that are offensive to females or people of color… ‘your personal preference’ is not a defense… and hence the ‘words are immaterial’ logic fails miserably.

The behavior and how its interpreted includes language used. Not really debatable. If certain language is offensive or not… well that’s where the crux of the matter is. The language being used, or generally… the frequency, visbility of it, is where people tend to get turned off.

Doubt anyone is going to get wound up over someone cursing under their breath or when talking to another player. But when people are raging with it or screaming it… well, that’s when things usually go from ‘my personal space’ to ‘everyone’s space’ and ‘lowest common denominator’ comes into play when people try to be ‘inclusive’


#287

I will say that society in general seems to becoming more tolerant to the “big five” bad words. I’ve now read three relatively mainstream news articles involving the president and Mario Kart, and all three included Daniels’ f-word quote verbatim and uncensored.


#288

Are we talking about something as despicable as that? No. Has anyone even brought something up like that as acceptable? No. Like I’ve said any number of times context matters. There is no context above where that would be acceptable and Fuck as a word has 0 inclination toward hate speech or something that is used to undermine or demean an entire race/gender. So please don’t try and use such inflammatory inferences to try and get your point across.

Please show me in my above clip where the vast majority get turned off? Hell the single lone comment on the video is

“Floyd Maxwell
4 months ago
4:02:38 Hilarious!”

My point here is that you are inferring your opinion is that of the masses. But history would say that people turned off by that behavior would be the minority by the leaps and bounds the competitive community has grown. My “antics” have shifted from more violent to much less but more vocal and all the while the competitive community continues to grow at a rapid rate.

I’d also think it’s fair to say I’ve been part of that growth the entire time.

So if my antics are a turn off and I (and others like me) have been part of the community the entire time why does the scene continue to grow?


#289

I think this example was in reference to “Context matters, words don’t.”

But I think we all agree that hate speech isn’t tolerated in which case: “Context matters, words don’t…unless it’s hate speech, in which case the context is irrelevant”.

There is a family friendly arcade that runs tournaments locally. They should absolutely be able to yellow-card anyone for yelling the F word. That’s appropriate for the context of the venue.

However, if all other tournaments locally allow loud swearing, then I would say the onus is on them to clearly explain that they have a different tolerance for foul language. If it was clearly communicated, then a yellow card is appropriate. If it wasn’t, then a warning seems fair.


#290

This is bonkers. Show me all the family-orientated content that’s full of proper context f-bombs. Devoid of context, it’s offensive to many, many people. You’re outside the norm on this.

This is EXACTLY what you’re doing, actually, and you’re arguing for people to not view something as offensive that has been pretty much universally accepted as offensive.