Should we start putting lightning flippers on Star Treks?
2 Likes
My LOTR was upgraded with lighting flippers to be put in competition (@kdeangelo), it could be interesting on a ST?
I feel like ābest playersā might be an imprecise term. Consistent players versus big score potential players fair differently in the different formats. PAPAās format and Pinburghās format, I believe, come closest to bringing out the best of both (might be closer if PAPA had a limited entry), while Pump and Dumps stress big score potential along with deep pockets. But no matter what you do in qualifying, FINALS stress consistency (and ability under pressure - which cannot be underestimated). So in the end, you see a lot of the same players late in tournaments.
Is there a big difference between standing in line for your entry at HERB and waiting for your turn during match play?
Often match play has shorter waits
1 Like
To me there is a big difference. One, the wait is shorter. Two, youāre in the moment, actively playing against other people caring about how they play and adapting your play based off their play. Iām so much more engaged when waiting to play against someone than waiting to play a game by myself.
3 Likes
But then you just play one ball. And then you wait some more.
In a four person game, you wait for three balls between each play, which is basically like waiting for one person in an HERB format. So I dunno, I just think the āpeople are getting screwed because they are waitingā argument isnāt super strong, especially with todayās software. But Iām just making a little argument - because personally I donāt enjoy HERB as much as match play. These days I donāt even enter HERB tourneys.
In match play, I feel like I interact with people more, and I watch their games closely, and it often feels like a lot is on the line. In HERB I tend to see more people getting super stressed out by all the cash theyāre spending. So, @chuckwurt, I agree with the points you just made.
4 Likes
Does an extended cradle damage the machine by potentially over-heating the coil? I dunno, just trying to determine if this strategy might break an IFPA ruleā¦
Try that on some Capcom games.
Section III: Player Conduct, Paragraph 5: Intentional Delay, in the IFPA/PAPA rules:
"No player may delay their game for more than 30 seconds, except to await a ruling or resolution of an environmental inconvenience. Environmental inconvenience is defined as any condition which can reasonably be expected to be resolved quickly, such as unusual noise, lighting problems other than sunlight, or repairs to an immediately adjacent machine.
Intentional delay is defined as time when the player is intentionally making no progress towards in-game objectives, including but not limited to time during which the ball is left in the plunger lane, held on a flipper, or passed from one flipper to another. Stuck balls do not count as intentional delays. Holding one or more ball(s) while one or more ball(s) remain in play does not count as intentional delay.
Intentional delay will result in a warning for the player. If the delay continues or is repeated, tournament coordinators may instruct the player to stop playing, and a score of zero will be recorded for that player. A player may not intentionally cause a ball search in order to activate any feature of the game."
A player is welcome to try and clog up the time other players have on the machine at their leisure. Itās going to be really tough for that player to win the tournament when they arenāt allowed to play in finals for being kicked out of the tournament 
I file this under one of the many āDonāt be an assholeā rules.
5 Likes
I really enjoyed reading over these comments.
I run an unlimited one based on the Louisville/SPF(at the time) because I was new and that was what the 2 local shows near me were running. So of course I follow along and it was so successful after the first one so I didnāt want to change the format for the 2nd year. Now it was even bigger and so was the prize pool but I did remove the B division and that probably upset some. So that was some of the feedback I got back from the surveyā¦ oh and it was hot in thereā¦ That wasnāt my fault. I just go to what room they told me to 
I will still keep running an unlimited as it seems I get more players every year from around the US coming to play but I have listened to feedback for Pinvasion and I have put B division back in place. We have a larger venue this year and we are back on the open show room floor with plenty of cold air.
I hope some of you will come out and enjoy our southern hospitality this June at the Southern-Friend Gameroom expo
4 Likes
top24 in final with a B division like INDISC this year is good target when you have 90+ people which mean 30% get to play in the finals on Sunday.
1 Like
Around here lately, sure. In the past when CAX and PPE had banks of 15 or more games, it wasnāt a problem. There was often 2 or 3 games with no wait at all and the ones that did have lines were short. There will always be a crush at the end of Q for a Herb tourney, but with enough games, everyone gets thru and no one complains.
Not enough games is bad for any format. The number of games used and the quality of the games used are two of the most important considerations when planning a tourney, regardless of the format you use. If the number of games/ space available doesnāt match your format, try a different format or get more games.
FGW could easily get 250 people thru in three days using the Herb format. Itās a shame you guys donāt care for the format.
top24 in final with a B division like INDISC this year is good target when you have 90+ people which mean 30% get to play in the finals on Sunday.
The fire department and the neighbors would be very unhappy and then there would be no more tournaments at FGW 
3 Likes
For me, the bottom line is, I want to put in as many attempts as it takes me to qualify, and then shut down qualifying so no one else can then knock me out! 
Iāve been trying to figure out how I feel on this subject. I personally think 2 qualifying games on each machine is too few, even if there are a ton of games. It often takes me a few games to get the feel for how a game is set up and I rarely put up big scores at the start. I suppose that means I need to PLAY BETTER but at the end of the day, Iām not likely to want to travel for a tournament that limits me to 20 plays across 10 games, since I would likely run through that in one day and be done. It just costs too much to get there, hotel, etc. if my purpose in travelling is to play in the tournament. I also tend to play better if I know I can play again if I so desire. I know I have enough skill to eventually get the game I want.
That being said, I donāt particularly care for the unlimited qualifying format, especially those that give large bonuses for getting the top score combined with only taking your best x games of y available, particularly if there are many more games (y) than you need on your resume (x)ā¦meaning you basically need break out a really high (maybe not #1, but high) score on a machine in order to get enough points to qualify. Players who consistently score say 10th on all their games might not qualify in the top 16 because of all the #1 bonuses. I feel if you score 10th in all your qualifying games you should qualify pretty close to 10th place overall.
My favorite tournament format, by far, is Pinburgh. 10 rounds head to head play, guaranteed playing 40 games, and a significant number get into the playoffs. Unfortunately, I get to sit it out again this year. I wish I could afford to bring all 4 of us in my family out to Pittsburgh!
Kevin
1 Like
I have never seen anyone do this; but yes, there is a rule against 30+ second waiting without making any game progress, so this would not be allowed.
(Mode timeouts count as āgame progressā, and there is no time limit for waiting for a tilt to settle.)
Thatās why I said over three days. With all those games, the banks could be huge. Little to no waiting. You guys should at least consider a limited entry Herb. 15 game banks would epic (5-6 count) and lightning fast.
The city would make a killing on parking fees. Enough to build a new fire station!
My favorite tournament format, by far, is Pinburgh. 10 rounds head to
head play, guaranteed playing 40 games, and a significant number get
into the playoffs. Unfortunately, I get to sit it out again this year.
I wish I could afford to bring all 4 of us in my family out to
Pittsburgh!
If you canāt make Pinburgh, Cactus Jackās Silverball Showdown runs a similar format, if OKC is cheaper for you to travel to than Pittsburgh.
Definitely have to do Pinburgh at least once in your life though.
Everyone who wanted to make the finals made the finals. Some people that DIDN"T want to make the finals even made the finals
2 Likes
Being a fellow European I completely agree with Martinās (PinballNews) views some 30 posts above this one.
ItĀ“s really weird that not everyone has the same amount of tries.
ItĀ“s super boring to stand in line.
/Mats
4 Likes