I don’t think anyone ever “intentionally” plans on interfering with another player. The rules simply lay out the consequences for interfering regardless of intent.
Unfortunate DQ for sure but I’ve seen worse.
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Was P3 a recognized TD or Tech acting in an official capacity on the adjacent game?
Cases like this does make the case for haveing tech / TD’s not playing in events or some kind of can’t tech / TD the same game they are on but that does work if only 1 TD / tech or cases when games are next to each other.
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But for an Tech / TD are they interfering as an TECH / TD so NO DQ and the same comp rules as any loss of ball due to TD / TECH work?
I give p3 a zero for interference. P2 gets a comp ball.
I see this as the least unfair option. I don’t ask P2 what they think about taking over but if they jump in and say they want to play on instead of a comp ball I’m OK with that. P3 still takes a zero for making the mistake.
If I’m the TD/tech I take the zero. Set an example, take the penalty and don’t complain about it.
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No, P3 was not an official or tech. It does seem.a slightly different situation than someone stepping up to the machine and pulling the plunger. A different degree of unintentional.
In the end the TD said if the other 3 players agreed then P3 could play the ball out of turn. Otherwise he would get a 0.
This is the absolute worst way of handling any ruling. clownshoes.jpg
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Me to Cayle - “So Daniele wins IFPA9 unless he agrees to let you play on.”
Me to Daniele - “So you win IFPA9 unless you agree to let Cayle play on. Your thoughts?”
Daniele to Me (in extremely broken English) - “So I win?”
Definitely the worst way to handle any ruling. It was the last time we did anything of the sort.
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You are not allowed to rule on your own game. If you were the TD or Tech in this situation, you should call another league official over to make the ruling. I would want to take the zero for the reasons you state, but it is not my choice to make.
Interesting discussion and something I haven’t thought about. I don’t get involved in my own rulings, but I never thought about what would happen. The operator gave me the keys to the games and I’m the only one that opens them to address things like stuck balls.
By that rationale, one of the other TDs would have to DQ me if I accidentally drained their ball when trying to get it unstuck, or if I were to lean against the tilt bob or something.
My initial thought is that when I open the door to the game, I’m acting as a tech and not a TD so any accidental interference would be addressed the same way it would be if a tech caused the interference.
Either way, great discussion and something I’m going to add to my notes. I like to set precedence before something happens so there is no confusion or argument.
I think that any Tech based interference does not count as out of turn. As should fall under accidental interference by tech rules.
I understand that the rules are clear on this, but if it wasn’t a large event, I would hope some consideration would be given to the free tech services being offered. If I was player two, I would’ve stepped up and played on. Minor malfunction.
I volunteer my tech services whenever I can. A ruling like this (in a small event) would be very discouraging. Fix your own games if it’s going to be like that.
Why should an Tech get an DQ for trying to fix a game?
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One of the bigger mistakes here was also P3 trapping up the ball. DOUBLE INTERFERENCE!
Mitch still has that exact Old Chicago - tempted to try and buy it. Then I can be reminded every time I see it.
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Yes, and yet it happens all the time in local league play, in my experience. The worst part of it is that it puts players in the position of having to decide whether to be seen as the jerk/rules stickler/whatever, instead of putting that burden rightly on the TD. I’ve had some very frustrating experiences along that line so I am very much not a fan of ever letting players decide rulings.
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I didn’t mean DQ a tech or TD if they are performing their duties. I meant they shouldn’t get special consideration if they make a player error that would penalize any other player.
Define player error vs player error when acting as tech / TD say bumbing a game when working on the one next to it.
I’ve got no problem being the rules jerk. Competition has rules. If players don’t like rules, I kindly suggest they not compete.
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That’s a courageous attitude and one I have no issue with. I am in fact a very rules-happy person (why else would I read all the rulings threads here, right?) and known for it in my neck of the woods. I just don’t think that burden should ever be put on the players, especially in a beer league where it’s going to cause strife. The TD should always be the bad guy/good guy/whatever. “What do you guys want to do?” is something I’ve been asked by a TD when we got them for a ruling in a league, and that just shouldn’t happen.
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