Lock stealing games are fine with me as it adds to the strategy of the game. Looks at pinburg this past year on Andromida. After Colin had a good sized lead he now has to think about locking a ball to try and further his lead with the risk of giving Josh a free chance at MB or to avoid the lock to make MB harder for Josh when he comes up to play. A little more skewed in 4 player games as already mentioned but I think it’s great for 2 player games.
what I am 100% against though is games that have carry over jackpots especially when they carry over game from game.
There was probably a time when I cared about this, but at this point I’ve played in enough tournaments that have used games with lock stealing that I don’t think it’s that big of a deal.
If it makes you feel better, communicate to your players ahead of time which game(s) has potential lock stealing. They can choose their position accordingly.
Nearly every game mentioned in this thread has been used in Pinburgh, and if it’s good enough for Pinburgh, it’s good enough for me.
There are so many edge cases and grey areas that it’s impossible for me to draw any logical line in the sand between what’s fair and what isn’t. That said, I’m sure there are a handful of games I might not want to use in a tournament, but if you really go down the rabbit hole, you can probably find fault with most games. (Ex: GOT sword locks. It it unfair enough for me to worry that someone gets a moving ball through the inlane after locking while another player can short plunge to a cradle with an unvalidated playfield?)
This is a know your audience thing. For example in PAPA A Division, no ball saves… but in more casual events where you may have less skilled players, having a ball save may be the difference if someone new has fun and returns or never comes back again.
I used to be against using these games in tournaments, but now I’m fully supportive of including them. It adds more strategy and decision making into the experience, and nothing is stopping any single player from locking all the balls and starting multiplayer on their own.
At our SCS, we had Elvira and the Party Monsters, and in a 2 player situation, it’s quite fun to watch the match play out. First, there’s the decision to pick the game, knowing that you’re probably going to have to go first, which means you either have to run through ALL the locks on ball one, or use an alternate strategy and wait and see what player 2 does. The games become much more reactionary and competitive where the other player’s actions have a lot to do with what you do in your game. It feels like a more competitive situation than a simple high score race.
It’s not a ball search and seemly random. But never a bad idea to trap up and wait for 3-5 secs from time to time. If it doesn’t happen almost immediately it never will.
I’ve long been in favor of using lock stealing games in tournaments to add defensive strategy to the competition, with the proviso that it’s match play rather than groups of 4. I don’t like the “Player A sets up Player B, so C and D get screwed” scenario, but for h-t-h, use it or face the consequences. I’ve had several fun matches on such games, e.g. with Eden, Jim, Karl, etc., and like the idea of having more.
What is the difference between a player locking a ball and not cashing it in for a MB, or a player lighting the gumball on TZ and cycling the powerball nearer to release and not cashing it in, allowing the next player the opportunity to take it straight away?
It brings a different level of strategy, risk/reward, than the majority of games. It makes it much more of a player vs player scenario, rather than player vs machine
I have no problem with lock stealing games in any competitive setting, 2P/3P/4P.
The argument against using these games often seems to revolve around some concept that on each ball, each player will do exactly half of what’s required for multiball… so P1 does half of what’s needed and then P2 does the other half, enjoying the multiball and leaving P1 with nothing. Personally, I never understood this argument. Why assume that P1 will be unable to complete “the other half”, while it’s a gimme for P2? Sometimes it happens like that, but (surprise!) sometimes it doesn’t. Sometimes P1 will bomb out their ball, or successfully start the multiball, either way leaving a clean slate for P2, who is then at risk for leaving something for P1. Similar ebb and flow for any number of players.
Yes and no. Having a few of the bad ones over a 10 rounds/40 games qualifying is fine. I agree. But in finals, no.
I have played Fire in a 4-player final, final game, with three players tie for first going in. That felt bad. And I wish the organisers had made a choiced selection for finals, taking this one, at least, out of the pot.
Why would it be okay for everything but finals?
If anything I think using a lock stealing game in a finals such as Pinburgh would break the stigma on those games.
If I’m playing for 10k (never gonna happen but…) the last thing I want is one player in a group having an easier game to play then me based on some purely coincidental failing or not failing of another player. If it’s a game like Sorcerer where it’s one shot and a lock is always lit I wouldn’t complain but if someone is using Radical in a format like Pinburgh, for real money, that’s really bad form IMO.
I find lock stealing games incredibly unfair for serious competition but for casual competition I think they’re a lot of fun. We use Hollywood Heat at league now and the lock stealing has been pretty entertaining generally.
So what’s everyone’s ranking of most brutal lock-stealing games, ranked from “Soul-Crushing” to “Meh, no big deal”… Taking into consideration both the relative scoring benefit of multiball and the difficulty of re-qualifying and re-locking the locked balls you had stolen from you (in some cases, you don’t lose your locks being qualified, but you do lose your physical ball locks and have to relock them).
Here’s a fairly comprehensive list (I think?) with my quick stab at such a ranking:
I’m sure I’ve missed quite a few, and I’m guessing opinions on the “soul crush” factor will differ wildly.
Strange Science
Radical
Roller Games
Heavy Metal Meltdown
EATPM
Jokerz!
Fire
Fireball II
Fireball Classic
Fathom
Space Station
Big Valley
Nip-It
Torpedo Alley
Swords of Fury
Taxi
Grand Lizard
TNA
Lightning
Vector
SWE1
Andromeda
Pink Panther
Space Shuttle
Freefall
Robocop
Mousin’ Around
Pinball Magic
Atlantis (Bally)
WCS
Transporter
You could almost argue the reverse on these two … that you want to have your locks stolen due to creating more opportunities for skill shots:
TAF
Fireball
