Urgent ruling?


“Shuffling songs by Frontier


I agree with this after reading the format of that particular game. If the ONLY determination would be that last place is eliminated, then P4 already has confirmed results that they would not be last. From what I read in various PAPA/IFPA rules, established positions are to be preserved whenever possible when a breakdown occurs. In this case, P4 didn’t “win” … they instead guaranteed they weren’t “last” and that should be preserved and not replayed.

EM in Pinburgh: game blew up on P3’s last ball. I was P1 and had lower score than P3 and P4, therefore I could not participate in the makeup game as I had already lost.

Regarding the 2/3 wppr comment: walk off games happen all the time, many ball 3s are never played. In this case, P4 did not need to play anymore if the only result is the elimination of last place. I’d say good ruling assuming only last was eliminated on this game and no other results count.


Only last player was eliminated, but the order of the game determined playing positions in the following game.

I agree it would be harsh on P4 as they had already guaranteed they were not last, but they could have finished anywhere from 1st to 3rd


Perhaps a reasonable alternative then would be to give P4 the option of either replaying fully with everyone else, or taking the automatic advance but being forced into the worst seed for the subsequent game.


Then you gotta redo if anything regarding P4 was still undetermined.


@jdelz give me some more details and ill see what I can do!


Being P4, I’m curious as to the definitive ruling here as different opinions here.

What Wayne kindly omitted to mention is the crucial element of the format where only the last player is eliminated so survival was the main priority with position choice available to the higher places for the next round,

I agree in a normal points scoring game eg 4,2,1 0, ruling should be to replay, as the game was unfinished for P2-4 but with the last player eliminated format this seems logically wrong.

Since as P4, I’d already beaten P1, my argument was that I had survived and therefore should not have to replay where I might come 4th and drop out.

In the end the TD asked opinion of other players where majority agreed that the fair ruling was for P4 to progress and the remaining 3 players play a news game. The compensation was that P4 would be awarded 3rd in that game as the win was not guaranteed.


This is how I would’ve handled it.


What about a slack group with tds we want to participate. We would all get instant notifications on our phones of any other TD with a ruling question and could talk it out instantly. @haugstrup would probably agree with me on that one :wink:


that Tech must have been wearing a super hero cape. replacing a transistor in the middle of a game is impressive.


Start by just using the quick ref guide. Would have been fairly easy to figure it out with this.IFPA PAPA Pinball Rules Quick Ref Guide.pdf (306.8 KB)


Nice! Never knew that existed. Will be printing a few and laminating to keep handy at our league location.



I for one would enjoy a Slack group. My only challenge I’m running into with Slack with a few of the groups I’m involved in is the free-version 10,000 message limit, so we would lose archival possibilities like we have with the TiltForums/Discourse platform.


Didn’t realize that there was a limit on it.


Somebody could host a mattermost instance, similar to discourse, but for “chat” which would avoid the message limits. Others use telegram which can have a “Pinball TD” supergroup.


Guys, we already all have Josh’s cell phone though. He secretly loves the 1:00am, “Hi, I’m calling from Sacramento and we have a Gulfstream that’s skipping odd numbers on the reel…” phone calls.


I love the ones that come in from Australia that’s 2am Chicago time. I’ll typically wake up to some urgent text of “Need help with a ruling” that’s now 5 hours old. I always wonder how long they are possibly sitting around waiting for me to respond at that hour before making the ruling on their own :slight_smile:


How many times can the Jeopardy! theme loop in those five hours?


At this point there’s a 50% chance I’m awake at that time dealing with one of my kids who either had an accident, a nightmare or is hungry . . . so it’s always worth the shot!


Come on, admit it, you are telling fibs! :wink: