Tournament ruling- the intentional tilt.


#224

It happened. I don’t recall what the next game was because it was not important to making the ruling.


#225

You’re right. The most popular tournament in the world is clearly bad.


#226

The examples I gave are two specific reasons I’ve used the rule in the past. It’s much easier to point to a specific rule (tilt to gain benefit) rather than a vague rule (didn’t try your best) when explaining a situation to a player.


#227

No I mean I obviously don’t think that (and you know that too). It’s just that the rule seems to be unnecessary still. I can see that it’s easier to point to an “intentional tilt” rule, but if that rule is in place people will just start “not trying their best” instead. The only way to really kill that sort of sandbagging is to either change the format somehow to prevent it from being effective, or to remove all significant prizes from non-A divisions. The alternative is, of course, to just accept that it will happen and that it’s “not a big deal”. Either way it’s really not the end of the world for the rule to be there or not there, but I guess I don’t really see how it actually practically changes things in a positive way.


#228

Dang, I guess it’s easier to just survive that one extra bookcase shot than to get PAPA to change their mind :wink:
Seriously though, if the rule is intended to stop things like collusion, just add a thing to the rule saying so. Maybe something as simple as “Tilting for your own benefit is okay as long as it’s not endangering the spirit of the game. An example of this would be getting an extra greed letter.” DONE

OR

Just get rid of the rule. Since it’s redundant. And not necessary. And does nothing other than cause a 200 reply thread.


#229

This thread is fantastic.


#230

You misspelled “long” :slight_smile:


#231

I’m just going to point out that not everyone is motivated by the money. If you told me I could get $100 for coming in last place in A or a plastic trophy for coming in first in B I’d take the trophy. So changing the money situation isn’t a panacea. Yes, it will have an effect, but predicting how people will react to incentives is tricky when money isn’t their sole motivation.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program of Tilt Talk with Doug.


#232

I’m actually enjoying this thread, since rules, interpretation of rules, and (perhaps most of all) the rationale for rules, are all things that I find quite interesting. So I’ve actually been checking in every day to see how long the intentional tilt thread has gotten. I may not be typical.


#233

It’s now top ten thread material! :slight_smile:


#234

Slightly off topic but part of my previous question sorta… something interesting happened while I was playing Snow Derby yesterday. A ball bounced off the apron underneath the left flipper and I quicked flipped the flipper as it was bouncing, the flipper hit the ball on the down stroke back against the apron with enough force that the ball came back up and I was able to tip it with the right flipper and almost save it. I didn’t nudge to cause the bounce, just used flipper action. The ball when the flipper hit it, would have been high enough up that it was not technically below the flipper, but it was definitely not would I would call above the flipper. So good save and play on?


#235

Play on


#236

that would have been an amazing move!


#237

Now there’s an idea: give everyone who qualifies for A some special token or other desirable item to discourage sandbagging.


#238

I bet one of those could fetch a pretty penny on ebay! :sunglasses:


#239

The Cat-Paw maneuver. I think I read that on Fun With Bonus…


#240

Well it seems like there won’t be a change in the PAPA/IFPA rule, and there doesn’t seem to be interest in adding a “plunge EB” rule to that ruleset either. Rather, it seems like there’s encouragement that local rules simply override in that case.

So that being the case, here’s my draft for use in the NWPAS Satellite Series, in which EB’s are enabled at most locations. We’re able to disable them for the tournaments at the show itself, but not at the promotional tour events that happen prior to the show.

For other TD’s who need local rules to handle plunging extra balls, please review, and let’s see if we can create a pretty standardized “local rule”. Also if you see flaws with how this is written, please offer corrections, I’m all ears.

Any extra ball must be plunged, unless specified otherwise on a note on the backglass. When an extra ball is to be plunged, the player may touch flipper buttons to setup skill shot, then plunge ball in attempt to get the skill shot. The player may also choose to tilt the machine prior to plunging in lieu of skill shot and end-of-ball bonus, but a tilt anytime after a first plunge attempt will result in disqualification. Once ball is in motion the player must step back and cannot touch the machine, unless the ball returns back to plunger lane and is not auto-plunged, at which time they can re-attempt a skill shot.


#241

Looks reasonable. One comment is that your text doesn’t specify a penalty if the player touches the machine once the ball is in motion (besides the manual ball save clause) … I presume DQ, but it should be explicitly noted.


#242

What if a game’s auto-plunger is malfunctioning and you get a ball back in the plunger lane due to a ball saver? This is a thing that’s happened in our weeklies due to a TSPP with a malfunctioning autoplunge on location. Also, PAPA 19 C Division Finals had a MET with a flaky autoplunge that wouldn’t clear the lane.


#243

You should consider the situations where the game infinitely plunges, due to playfield not getting qualified. I have seen this on DH (for millions every autoplunge) and other games. What should be done? Call over a TD, presumably. What are you going to do? Tilt, flip for them, take the glass off the qualify.