Tournament ruling- the intentional tilt.


#184

There are just 3 locations in the whole of the UK which have enough machines on site to be able to host anything like a meaningful tournament.
The only way larger tournaments are possible are through private owners donating and bringing their own machines to venues, or hosting at their homes.


#185

I’m arriving a week late in this conversation. FYI, I’m on board with just kill the 'DQ if intentionally tilt" rule, not just for EB, but in all cases. Secondly, let’s standardize the plunge EB rule. Here are my thoughts in one place after reading 180+ messages.

  1. Reason for people wanting to tilt an EB that triggered this discussion: don’t accidentally start the mode or multiball you’ve worked all game to get to. This is totally legitimate. The purpose of plunging EBs is not to screw anyone. It’s simply to manage tourney situations where turning them off is not practical nor possible. And for those of you say don’t use those locations, then HA, not going to happen; @CFFLegs summarizes why not quite well.

  2. Another reason I’ve seen people want to tilt EB: test the tilt mechanism on a ball that doesn’t count, or on a machine with no end-of-ball bonus (e.g. NBA FB). Is knowing how sensitive tilt is an ‘advantage’? Who wants to enforce if that was done intentionally? If you tilt, you tilt regardless of intent. If you get an EB, then your choice to test the tilt, or earn end-of-ball bonus points. That’s your reward for earning the EB.

  3. For something like Radical, just use a game-specific rule. There are many machines that have game-specific rules. Either play as single-player game, or for that machine, player has choice of collecting End-of-ball bonus, vs making other person earn an extra lock. Don’t make a general rule to handle a specific situation that only happens on a few machines.

  4. For something like TAF, it’s a very small award, i.e. GREED letter? Why have a penalty of a DQ for such a minor gain? Again, let it be player’s choice for bonus vs that letter. So let it happen. Is it possible to tilt late enough to get both the bonus, but then still the letter? If yes, then let the player try to time it and suffer the consequences if they don’t time it right.

  5. “Intentional” vs “Unintentional” is nearly impossible rule to implement. 95% of the time, TD is not watching. When TD is watching, it’s still a judgement call. Let’s get rid of ‘intentional’ rules wherever possible, and especially when we’re talking about such a huge penalty for such a minor infraction. Dealing with any DQ where judgement comes into play situation is so much more problematic than just having a rule that doesn’t require any judgement at all.

  6. There are already rules regarding unsportsmanlike conduct and TD can apply those rules ranging from warning to DQ. Suppose a player is tilting at the end of every ball just to get the tilt bob moving for other player. Then someone complains. TD gives a warning to that player, and may actually watch. If they do it again DQd. But for the other 99.9% of the cases, TD doesn’t need to be involved. Let the machine speak, tilt is a tilt and whatever happens on that machine happens.

  7. Although PAPA/IFPA combined rule set doesn’t cover plunging EBs, probably the majority of tourneys, especially the non-majors, need to do this. It’s been extremely helpful even in local events to get everyone to follow the same rules, so that when, say, someone from Seattle goes to play in Portland or Calif, players already understand general tourney rules. So PAPA and IFPA can help all the local tourneys that create the player base to feed into the major PAPA and IFPA tourneys. So by helping local tourneys with this rule, you help them grow that player base.

  8. Assuming you do agree to add a plunge EB rule, let’s also address the inconsistency in what is allowed or not allowed. Some variations I’ve seen in different tourneys: can you flip to change lanes before plunging? If auto plunger (e.g. gun, STTNG with Battlemode or DH) can you choose the gun skill shot and take one gun shot? can you tilt? Are you allowed one-flip? What do you do if the game gives infinite ball saver? Let’s make a plunge-EB rule that is enforceable and non-ambiguous.

I’m not a fan of the “play any 3 balls”, because sometimes a player with choice prefers to go first. Playing your EB in favor of ball 3 changes the order. Just plunge the ball, but allow a player to choose tilting vs. end-of-ball points as their reward for earning the EB.


#186

Good comments, @dbs. But for me personally, the most important one is this:

I think too many rulesets try to overcomplicate things. (I won’t even exclude the FSPA rules that I oversee from this criticism.) Let the machine itself be the judge, jury, and executioner, unless there’s a clear and unambiguous indication that it’s broken.


#187

… edit below …


#188

So we can get rid of the rule?


#189

@PAPA_Doug


#190

Always the rule I live by.


#191

Wait what


#192

This thread has been great for inspiration :laughing:


#193

haha I hope that’s a real one!


#194

If we’re going down that road, how about a “You Are Overruled” card: use it any time during game play to Violate a single tournament rule, e.g. playing an extra ball, continuing to play a stuck multiball, tilting through to the next player, etc.


#195

I’m way ahead of you Bob :smiling_imp:


#196

So the rule can go?


#197

No, as Josh stated above the rule is staying.


#198

Is there any sort of willingness to state the intent behind the rule? The “because we said so” nature of responses so far have been very off-putting.


#199

The intent of the rule is to penalise any player who deliberately tilts or slam tilts a machine in order to derive some benefit to his or her own play, or the play of others.


#200

That’s about as “because we say so” as it gets


#201

It’s not. I’m not sure what you’re asking for here. The intent is stated in the rule. Perhaps clarify what you expect in an answer. I honestly don’t know what an acceptable answer is here.


#202

Perhaps the question goes back to “so tilting out your EB on MET to avoid starting CIT is still not allowed?”


#203

Sounds like it is not allowed if after you do that you admit to doing it on purpose.