If I’m playing against someone like this, I usually just give them space and stay out of their way. I also try to ignore hearing what they say so I can stay focused/keep my nerves calm.
Ragey outbursts are not healthy. Take a look at Elwin. Cool as a cucumber, never has any outbursts. Part of the reason he is so good is he keeps his emotions in check.
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As a TD I shouldn’t have to be someone that has to help you with what you might be going through in your life outside my event. I definitely have compassion for people and are friends with so many of my players, but your personal problems are not mine to have to deal with as a TD. If you can’t come to my event and keep your cool because your car broke down or you broke up with your significant other maybe you shouldn’t be at the event. We are volunteering to TD a pinball event for your enjoyment. We are not a therapist or guidance counselor.
This is something happening more and more that is taking out the fun of being a TD and running these events. Not just saying raging players but all aspects of players behavior and life choices and actions. We are even having to deal with this stuff outside our events in preparation for the events. I’m starting to feel less like a TD and more like a lawyer/law enforcement/therapist.
Can we please all come together and have fun and be civil humans?
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I think there are a lot more reasons elwin is good besides his ability to keep his emotions in check, and i would argue that for him it is easier to keep emotions in check because of his confidence in his ability. There is no correlation between behavior and ability in any game or sport.
And yet, almost every month, like clockwork, there is some thread about how to “handle” other peoples behavior and the responses sound like its open mic night at the amateur counselors convention.
I disagree. There are some phenomenal players in the Top 50 but some of them have very emotional outbursts. I believe that this is a hinderance and they would be even better if they could keep their emotions in check.
Take a look at golf. It’s a mental sport. If you can’t overcome your emotions (stress, anger, etc), you will never win. I’ve seen top players that go on tilt after a bad game and never recover because their emotions got the best of them.
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take a look at baseball, gerritt cole just tied the record for most strikeouts by a pitcher in the post season. everytime he throws a pitch he isnt happy with he lets out an f-bomb so loud they cut the on field mic.
we could go tit for tat all day with examples like this, so well just have to agree to disagree.
A few years ago, as a TD I would let the same few players rage somewhat regularly. They just seemed like angry people. Then I found out that one or two people had stopped coming to my events because of them.
Now I don’t tolerate it. I talked to the players with bad behavior and told them to shape up or stop coming. They corrected the behavior.
For local, recurring events, you’d much rather have something that is welcoming to new players than cater to one or two angry regulars.
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I see two types of responses. One says “this is how a yellow/red card system works and how to enforce it”, which seems very line with what Jim is saying - I don’t know where your shit comes from, but it’s on you to handle it when you show up at my event.
Where the “amateur counselors convention” seems to come in is people who look at that and say, I have some special reason I should be able to act like an ass and not get yellow/red cards for it. As a sometimes-TD myself that’s what drives me nuts. The “yeah he’s an asshole but he’s our asshole” line of thought that makes excuses for people. Rules are rules- these are the rules for my events, handle your shit, or you’ll get a warning- seems like a more consistent approach.
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THIS 
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for clarity, this comment was made in reference to the type of posts we see here on tilt forums about how to deal with others behavior and not about TD responses in real life. i absolutely agree that people not being held as accountable for their behavior because theyre a part of the “old guard” of a local scene is something that happens waaaaay too often.
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Yeah there is and we shouldn’t have to have these threads. It’s tiring for us as TDs but again and again we or forced to deal with these things because players can’t keep to themselves or keep there attitude/emotions in check. We don’t want to deal with it and make these threads but players are forcing us to be things we are not
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There was a point last year where I was just about ready to give up on being a TD, especially after we added a venue to the events I was running that serves alcohol, which oddly seemed to amplify some of the problems I was having.
A long frank discussion with one of my problem players seems to have gone a long way towards fixing the problem. However, if it hadn’t, I likely would have had to cut them loose.
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no they are not. no one forces you to become something. “players behavior can make it difficult for us to be our regular selves” sure. i absolutely agree with that. but TDs like all humans are ultimately in control of their behavior. Ive said it a million times and ill say it again: just because you filled out an online form for the ifpa does not mean you are a legitimate form of authority outside of the world of pinball. If you want to tell someone how to behave, you need to accept that they do not need to heed your advice especially if they dont agree with your assessment of their behavior. Give yellow/red cards all you want, beyond that, TDs should really keep their assessment of players behavior/lifestyles to themselves.
Never filled out any online form. You say players aren’t forcing us to be things we aren’t. I’ll completely disagree on that. I’ve got a big event coming up this weekend for the stern circuit. I’ve already spent more time on player conduct of what’s to come than game prep. No way running a tournament should be like that And that’s not my choice at all. That’s from people coming to me about things. Calling and messaging me. These are not things I want to have to have conversations about and it’s going way beyond the occasional rage tilt and f bomb. I’m not talking about that sort of stuff which is still annoying but easy enough to deal with, with the yellow/red card system as we always do.
if people are capable of forcing you to be something you dont wanna be then perhaps your frustration is not with others behavior, but rather with yourself when it comes to how much influence you give them over your experience. If you go anywhere and are thinking “people can force me to be something i dont wanna be” then yeah, this type of frustration will never cease.
I think you’ve made your point and now it’s turning personal.
Jim is a great TD and I’ve found myself in situations similar to what he’s dealing with before. It’s certainly not by choice, but when you’re in a position to make rulings on these types of things, your players may come to you looking to have their backs. I know I will do whatever I can to ensure a safe and welcoming event, even if that means taking on some extra personal stress and stepping outside the bounds of what I expected to have to deal with as a TD.
Side note to you Jim, I hope the player conduct stuff on the side isn’t hurting your motivation to keep running the event. We’ve seen it happen with some other circuit level tournaments and I’d hate for the 24 Hour Battle’s future jeopardized by the fatigue of managing bs on the side. I’ve said it to everyone who asks, it’s hands down my favorite tournament of the year, and I know many others agree. Can’t wait for this weekend!
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Thanks John. On that note I’ve always said you’re one of my favorite players to have around at the event. Never could imagine an issue with you. Super understanding player and always very accepting to whatever ruling may occur.
I’m not going to let these player conduct issues ruin the fun for everyone. I’m more easy going than some other and I can say it’s wearing more on some of my other TDs It’s not just this event these things pop up at. There’s always one case of something at any event these days it seems and distracts from the overall events or everyone in my mind.
And as far as saying I’m easily being forced into these things by players and that I’ll always be frustrated by that it’s more sounding like you would prefer to defend people poor actions over me trying to have compassion and being accommodating. If players are approaching me about true harassment mental/physical/sexual that is happening you are saying it’s not my place to do anything and by taking action even though I shouldn’t have to and don’t want to AS A TD. I’m the weak person and the problem lies in myself for that frustration? My frustration isn’t in the person commiting this? I don’t want to turn this into a personal attack thing between us. I’m just curious if that’s how you feel about these scenarios. Like I said this isn’t about a rage tilt or occasional f bomb.
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Hey all, seems like it’s time for my reminder that if this thread is not interesting to you, or if you don’t see the need for it, you are welcome to leave it unread. I can’t tell you how many Tilt Forums topics I have never clicked on. It feels great! Those of us who do find these topics useful can continue to use this thread to share actionable advice for TDs to implement in their events if they think it would be useful to do so. Dealing with a ragey player is different than dealing with harassment is different than dealing with cheating; asking for advice on how to deal with any and all of these topics is part of why this forum exists. Thanks!
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lol, here we go again!!
“youre against cameras on every street corner, you must be a burglar or vandal”
This logic pops up all the time in these types of arguments. just because im anti authoritarian does not mean im pro bad behavior. “oh you think its not my job as a TD to tell people how to behave, so what youre saying is youre an advocate for sexual harassment and racism and violence in pinball??!! for shame”.
Never said you were weak. please dont pretend im name calling when im not.
i guess the final point ill try to make is that pinball has a problem with ragers, and the problem is very often amplified by tournament directors insistence on micro managing player behavior. I completely understand disagreeing with this notion so if anyone would like to make a counterpoint to it i believe myself and the whole board would prefer it get moved to a PM.
I wasn’t jumping to the conclusion of you don’t want this so you must be that sorta thing. It’s why I asked your stance.
Just pointing out it’s hard to ignore and not address issues big and small about player behavior when other players are bringing the concerns to you as a TD. I can’t turn a blind eye on these actions becuase I don’t want to deal with them. It’s why I’m asking everyone to be a decent person and we don’t have to have these conversations.
If one is raging out at an event because of events at home or elsewhere they are going to be spoken too. For me if I’m having a bad day or issues going on elsewhere coming to a tournament is a positive place for me and turns the mood right around. If it’s not going to do that for you (not you specifically) and you are going to let your life bring down others please stay at home. If there is deeper issues you can’t deal with please come to us. I’m happy to help players as a friend, not as a TD