The role of the state representative is becoming more significant


I heard there was a massive amount of excitement over the pizza that @DEADFLIP was eating during our break before the final match :slight_smile:


I expect a state rep who is not participating to do the same thing.

Big picture though, I’m talking about moving in the direction of this not being an issue. Does Josh WANT to run the world championships every year while participating in it? That’s fine I guess, but it sure would be nice to have someone with principles/goals in alignment with the mission statement of the ifpa run the tournament so Josh can focus on playing his best pinball.

EDIT: I guess the key would be providing incentive for the T.D.


Not just that, but finding someone who has the incentive and the experience. I had to make a really tough ruling in my event last night, and I know it was right, but it was only through years of experience that I got that confidence and “street smarts” to know how to handle it. A more junior TD might have let his sympathy for a player’s situation get in the way of doing the right thing. Or allow himself to be bullied.

I also had to deal with a personal situation that involved me throwing someone out who was harassing another player. This stuff doesn’t come easy, and if you don’t really care it’s going to be tough finding anyone else to do it.

As Josh says, he’s run tons of events with much more press and scrutiny than we have for states, and nobody has ever questioned it. For me, if my players are happy that’s really all I’m worried about.


So maybe I’m too early with this concern. Am I looking too far ahead from the current state of competitive pinball? Because as these tournaments grow in size and payouts, I feel it will be increasingly difficult to justify ‘trust based’ tournaments.


So if the players aren’t happy what do they do? Just keep complaining to people and hope that eventually someone does something about it?


Well first I would hope that my players come to me, and we work it out. That’s part of the job. I’m not a dictator, I represent my players to the IFPA (and vice versa.)

If, over time, it turns out that the players can’t resolve their differences with the state rep, then it should be elevated to @pinwizj. I assume his first step is to attempt to mediate between the parties involved but I’ll let him speak more to what happens on his side.


Yep … exactly this.


Once significant money is involved, history shows that, if there is no independent oversight and potential conflict of interest, corruption (or accusations of corruption) will eventually happen, with certainty. (I have first-hand seen a TD gaining a personal advantage by taking actions that were highly questionable, even though not a single cent of money was involved, only (small) WPPR points.)

It’s a cost-benefit problem. It costs something to have non-participating TDs. These TDs will almost always make the same decision (or at least a decision just as fair) as a participating TD would, meaning that, almost always, the non-participating TDs add no benefit. For the benefit to be realised, a non-participating TD would have to make a decision that differs (and prevents someone from gaining an advantage) from the decision a participating TD would have made. But, of course, because the participating TD now doesn’t make a decision, the benefit of the non-participating TD (namely, preventing corruption) never becomes visible.

Still, with first-prize money now reaching $10,000-plus for some events, non-participating TDs would probably be appropriate. (If that much money is at stake, the fee for a non-participating TD shouldn’t eat too much into the overall prize pool.)

The current situation is much like a soccer match where the referee is also a player on one of the teams, or a tennis match where one of the players is the referee. Not ideal.


So I guess I’ll put it this way: there should never be a situation where the main person fielding complaints about someone is that same person. 49/50 state reps might be great about this, it doesn’t matter, it’s a recipe for problems.

And the fact that nearly every possible problem within the IFPA so quickly jumps straight to the ‘contact Josh’ step just concerns me. Even just stuff like people calling him personally for rulings at tournaments. A good laugh sure, but international organizations with 50000+ people involved just shouldn’t be run like that.


Again this is for fun people. Try not to forget this #1 rule. I take my responsibilities and duties very seriously but can we just enjoy these things sometimes without acting like this is the US government and is the end of the world?


I too would like to see directors not participate, but I would also like to see directors get paid at least as much if not more than the players.


Possibly one of my worst streams I’ve put together, but the pizza halftime pulled all the viewers for sure. :wink:
I need that @kdeangelo setup! Lets gooooooo!


Sure. But, in that case, I would the leave the money out of it, or at least reduce prize money to trivial amounts. I don’t believe it’s possible to have the cake and eat it, too.


I’ll run it…


This actually happened on Saturday at the Maryland State Championship, when the TD decided to invent a rule that went against the documented State Championship rules. I’d be interested to hear alternatives to calling Josh (or any higher power) when the TD refuses to budge and is demonstrably in the wrong.


@pinwizj on a speed dial! though i doubt Josh ever reversed a local TD ruling by phone.


I reversed that Maryland one by phone in 3 seconds . . . piece of cake :slight_smile:


Anyone who thinks being a SCS TD and playing in the tournament is a benefit is on crack. The average player has no clue all that goes into running a successful event. Just getting commitments from the players is enough of a challenge. Try focusing on playing when you’re constantly being interrupted for rulings, stuck balls, and other mechanical issues. God forbid there’s a real issue which my involve DQ’ing someone. then you have to report results after each round, run the stream now, and in my case i provide a pretty good spread of food too. If all that wasn’t enough many of us have to deal with media at the event too- i had a magazine writer and photographer attending all day long. As someone else mentioned if you have an issue with a TD report it to Josh. the community is too small for any shenanigans not to be noticed.


There are a lot of good points brought up here. Running a tournament while playing is hard, and honestly, it should be. I feel like if you’re going to play in the tournament you’re running, you’re going to have to be willing to give yourself the short end of the stick at times. In an effort to be as fair as possible, you’re going to have to be willing to play with a certain level of distraction that others won’t have to deal with.

I had a situation at the SCS tournament where I was called on to make a ruling. My opponent was playing his ball, so I walked over to check things out. While my attention was on the ruling, my opponent drained, and my ball was put into the shooter lane. The game was Guardians of the Galaxy, so my mode timer counted down while I attended to the issue. Several times in the event I got tapped on the shoulder DURING MY BALL to ask for help on a ruling. But what should I do? Should I make them wait an unreasonable amount of time so I can finish my match? I don’t feel right doing that.

But you know what? That’s really ok. It’s what I signed up to do. I look at it as a position of service. I’m there to make sure everybody has a fair and enjoyable competition. If I choose to compete, well, then it might mean that I have to concede a bit of my own comfort to ensure the smoothest event possible.

As Evan has said, the best case scenario is that the director doesn’t play, but for many of us, we still choose to compete while directing. In those instances, I think you have to just accept that you’re going to have some level of disadvantage as a player in order to run the best event possible. Yes, you should still try to keep it as fair as you can for yourself, but eliminating distractions coming your way will be all but impossible.


As a state rep, even if i don’t play it doesn’t prevent collusion. Hey @PinballNarcissist , come to our circuit event at flippers in november. Have a top 16 finish and play in NC. You seem like a nice guy, what pins would you prefer and how do you want them setup? It will cost you $100 but you can win trophy and get an invite to vegas.