This is the aspect that bothers me. Because you haven’t witnessed it, it hasn’t happened? So why would a player that witnesses unsavory behavior ever want to speak up?
Sorry. You misunderstood. I am sure these situations do happen, I just haven’t seen them in my area and no one has approached me, nor have I heard about these things being a concern through second hand. So my only advice without more information is to make your concerns aware with your local players, other TDs that aren’t not involved with the TD in question. Assuming there’s a TD you can trust to have this conversation with.
I’m more than happen to help advise a specific situation privately if you’d like, but here we have merely been talking about hypotheticals so far, so it’s hard to try and help.
The way that I carry myself at my events and the rules that I communicate up front is how I would hope any of the players I deal with would be comfortable coming to me with a concern whether it has to do with me or not.
Ok, hypotheticals it is. If I PM you, you’re just going to get annoyed. Forget about it. PMs Uber Alles!
You might be surprised.
$100 to Project Pinball that you would immediately shut me down.
You’re on.
I think the way you’re being super combative and coming in to this conversation with a set of assumptions has more to do with being shut down than any of the content of your posts. You’ve just so clearly got an axe to grind and it makes you hard to listen to seriously.
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You mean calling 99% of all TDs “gross” isn’t a good way to jump into a conversation?
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Because of the quarters? Not really. If it’s their machine, they presumably paid several thousand dollars for the ability to rack up service credits. Spending $5,000 to save $20/week in coin drop is not really a savvy investment.
Because of after-hours access to the machines? Possibly. But let’s do some reality checks…
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Is this a public location? If so, are you there playing the games every hour that it’s open? If not, you’re already choosing to yield some of your potential practice hours, but that’s not the owner’s fault.
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Also, if this is a public location: you’re implying that the owner just hangs out playing all night after closing. Which may be true. But there’s a good chance that the owner has to, y’know, run their business. Fix the games. Clean up the location. Order food and drink from their suppliers. Pay the bills. Whatever. In the real world, I’ve rarely seen location owner/operators who actually have time to regularly stay after closing and practice for hours.
Of course, the extreme case is the tournament held at a private location that is ONLY accessible during the tournament. Yes, that owner has a “home field advantage”, one that should be very obvious to all competitors. If you’re uncomfortable with that… don’t play in that event.
What? Explain “cast out”. For that matter, explain “speak up”? What’s a real world example of the problem you’re describing? No need to give specific names or locations.
Again… what? Speak contrarily all you want. No one will bite you. But so far, you’ve offered rather vague remarks, really not enough information to be able to help assuage your fears and concerns. Unless you share more specifics, it’s hard for any of us here to help. The vast majority of TDs try their best to run a fun, fair event, but of course a TD can have an off day, or actually be a terrible TD. It happens. If you’ve experienced an unfair ruling, take it up with the TD on the spot. Start a discussion about the specific scenario here or on the Pinball TDs Slack. If you remain unsatisfied, consider not attending that TD’s events in the future. No point in wasting your valuable time and money on an event that’s not giving you enjoyment.
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If they were not allowed to compete and TD I suspect half the tournaments on the schedule would disappear and if they run them unfairly then you’ll find out quickly when nobody shows up for one of your tournaments. People will vote quickly with their feet on any tournament they think isn’t being ran fairly or well.
I run events as TD and play, and in my experience I play half as good because I’m TD’ing and having to deal with alot of tournament issues. For the UK Open which is our big UK national event at the last event which was my first big TD gig I decided not to play so I could focus on doing a good TD job but there were many times during that were I could easily have played my matches and now that I’ve done it I think I would play.
I’ve been to alot of tournaments around the world some where the players are TD and never once did I ever think anything shady was going on. In fact quite the opposite - the TD’s tend to lead by example and hold themselves to a higher standard than they would whilst ruling on another player, thats certainly what I try to do.
Neil.
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For the bar leagues I run, I get no practice time. Before league night starts, while everyone else is playing the games, practicing and getting warmed up, I am busy registering players, helping with last minute repairs, setting up score sheets, etc. I usually play my games cold, one attempt.
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I’m a seasoned TD, and to me being a TD is a disadvantage.
I usually never get warm-up time before a tournament as I am signing up players, fixing last minute issues, and configuring tournament settings on all the pins. I’ve also been interrupted numerous times in the middle of my game when players needed a time-sensitive ruling or I just naturally hear the commotion.
In the end, I asked two other competent league members to TD so I could focus on organizing and planning our local events as well as simply having more fun.
And I’m not alone in this feeling (see previous post). I also just moved to a new state, and a local operator offered me $40 just to TD his tournaments. He said he wanted to enjoy flipping again by not having to also direct it.
TL; DR - all things being equal I’d much rather be a player than a TD. And don’t worry too much if TDs play. Without these generous folks there wouldn’t even be a tourney to play in.
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How many events have you been a TD?
I don’t think we all need to pile on. Obviously, the home-owner/vendor/operator/owner running a tournament on machines they own has an advantage, whether they’ve had more time playing the games, know how the tilt bob is set, when they were last waxed, etc etc. But the owner is not necessarily the TD. Should both the machine owners and the TD not be allowed to participate? Should the Pittsburgh area players who had helped “calibrate” the Pinburgh machines not have been allowed to play because of their advantage? If a significant number of players are flying to a tournament and will be jet lagged, should the local players not be allowed to play? Advantage in the form of play-time/machine-knowledge is not what this discussion is about.
Now, should TDs be allowed to play? You can choose not to play in tournaments where the TD plays, you can choose to run tournaments where you don’t play. I haven’t seen TDs making calls to benefit themselves, nor heard whispers of such action in my area. To boot, in my opinion, TDs are at some disadvantage because they generally aren’t able to practice during the practice time, have to perform the administrative functions during the tournament, and are frequently interrupted during their games when calls have to be made.
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I started running comps, purely because there was no one within 100 miles who was running them and I wanted to enter more comps. If I didn’t run them I wouldn’t have a comp to enter in the first place.
I’ve had to make 3 rulings in which I was involved - 2 of them 100% favoured me and was the correct decision to make. 1 of them was a little more of a judgement call and I harshly ruled against myself.
I have never had anyone complain about a ruling I have made, either to myself, online or to others in the community (The UK pinball community isn’t large enough for gossip and bickering not to get back to me, or anyone else)
To my knowledge, I’ve not had people avoid the comps I run based on my rulings (they have avoided them because I didn’t max out TGP)
There are 3 kinds of comp (and I’ve ran comps at all 3)
On public location - machines are set up permanently. No real benefit to anyone as they’re freely available for anyone to play.
Private house - Yes the owner has an advantage knowing how that particular machine is set up and plays, but from experience you spend most of the time dealing with other issues such as being the host , sorting the food, what’s the WiFi, where’s the toilet, etc.
Show - where people bring machines from their collections. Those bringing the machine have an advantage as to what the rules are, but in my experience the slightest change in incline ruins the game completely and your muscle memory is actually a hinderance. There’s also no guarantee that you’ll play the majority of comp games on your machines.
In summary, the advantages of competing in your own comp are vastly out-numbered by the disadvantages.
If you feel otherwise, you are perfectly within your right not to enter such comps.
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Here are some real world stats for you to take into consideration. I TD all of the events I run, which are held in 3 different private homes. One of those homes is mine and over the past 3 years I have had 9 events on my own turf. A day or 2 before every event at my house I wax EVERY machine (18 total) and this significantly changes how a game plays on most of the games.
Regardless, of how much time I get to practice on them, or know the bounces, or know exactly which machines have tighter tilts, I have only won ONE of the 9 tournaments at my house and I think I am a pretty decent player, especially playing on my own machines.
As others have mentioned, TDing and playing is very tough because we are constantly being interrupted or pulled away from a game, etc. Half the time I step up to a game and have no clue what I am doing, what progress I have made, etc. but this is what I signed up and I never blame my poor play on the fact that I’m the TD of the event.
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Hey all! I feel like this conversation has become unproductive and so I’m going to lock this thread. Thank you!
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