OK, so I had to google that. @BMU , You are certainly not “an unacceptable or unwelcome person”. I think everyone here respects and appreciates your vast knowledge and appreciation of this thing we love called pinball. Not everyone will agree with you on this subject, but that’s ok and to be expected. Also, @Adam is already old, just like me…
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I strongly disagree with this statement. Knowing rules is not correlated with the ability to make shots. I regularly expect people who don’t know the game as well to beat those who know the rules super well (and personally, I find it nicely satisfying when I do that). Additionally, instead of taking the time to learn the rules, someone can devote their time (assuming time is limited) to learning how to make the shots with more consistency.
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Yep. Still have to make the shots. Accuracy is the number 1 skill in pinball.
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Not for me. I’m old and my vision and reflexes ain’t what they used to be. I miss a lot. My flipper skills are my most important asset. I miss, recover, then try again. Currently second in my league 3/4 of the way through the season.
How many of those younger players own those games? In the age of deeper rulesets, owning games is going to be a bigger advantage.
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You’d lose a lot to someone that never misses, and you’d never lose if you never missed.
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Agreed. I’d say Accuracy, then Recovery, then Rules Knowledge/Strategy, and finally a cool looking playing stance.
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Now we’re talking!
I like to throw an occasional kick.
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Fur coats help. Why else would I wear them?!
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This hits the nail on the head for me. The only limiting factor in rule complexity should be the programmer’s ability to convey game state to the player without requiring them to constantly look at the screen.
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As far as TV viewership goes, I’ll make a comparison to chess:
Hikaru Nakamura has over 1 million subscribers on Youtube. There are maybe a handful of people that can even follow what he’s doing when he’s playing chess. Being able to access every nuance of a position isn’t necessary to be entertained by someone playing it. Especially when that person is as engaging as Hikaru.
In the 70s, average people were fascinated by Spassky - Fischer and sat down at coffee shops to play chess with each other more than ever before while that was taking place. Chess clubs across the nation were filled and parents thought teaching a child chess was going to pay dividends by the time that child reached adulthood. It’s why my parents taught me.
It isn’t the complexity or the rules that drive chess viewership, any more than it’s the rules of the table that drive pinball viewership. It’s the story. Some people want to watch every match of every tournament in chess, and some only want to tune in when an underdog is across from a favorite. Some only want to watch when their favorite player is playing. The same thing goes for pinball.
Hot Tip under the right set of circumstances can be the perfect game to watch. And it can also be super boring. When Keith v Zach Game of Thrones it was amazing because the story of the game. ALT v CDS HU match on ACDC coming down to a final ball massive jackpot collect followed by a tilt and a pause to see who had indeed won the game was fascinating. Johannes Ostermeier comeback on Dracula - incredible because of the amazing game put down by Danielle. Many games of pinball, not so amazing to watch. I don’t watch pinball at all anymore, but when I did I was looking for the story. Not the rules of the game.
Interesting announcers, interesting developing stories, interesting tourney formats. That’s what really matters.
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I feel I can’t let this thread go without commenting that P3 as a platform can convey things remarkably well to the player. I hope more people get to play Heist in the near future.
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I was about to post the same. Such a great platform, with nearly infinite, totally flexible info possibilities displayed exactly where the players is looking.
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I know many people hate it, but I rather liked the in-playfield screen on Heighway’s games. Thought it was a good way to catch people’s attention for both rules/info as well as eye candy while still watching the playfield.
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https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1206429169
Received my NIB GZ Pro yesterday and streamed my learning process of a new game.
As can be seen it didn’t take too long until our scores improved and we had a strong enough strategy to take into comp. This was without reading any rules or watching any vids or even looking at the playfield beforehand.
The next stage of my learning process, now that I’ve got the basics is to read some ruleset threads - to flesh out the basics we uncovered - and put in to context.
Then it is to play the game again trying to incorporate that and go for higher scoring strategies, or stacking things together.
The next stream will be this Thursday (18th) starting at 19:00 GMT, would be interesting to see if the scores improve significantly.
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The problem with the overly complicated games is that you can make tons of shots without scoring many points. New Avengers is especially guilty of this.
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I’d say that’s a positive. No points for “sloppy shots”. You’re rewarded for making correct shots and setting your shots/strategy up. I could say the same about Jurassic Park.
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What’s sloppy about accurately hitting shots?
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They aren’t the right shots for that particular moment.
Wouldn’t it be lame if you blew up a game like GOT simply because you hit the center ramp 100 times in a row?
Lots of games reward simply hitting shots over and over. But not all of them. It’s good to have the mix. Creates a more well rounded event/player. Doesn’t mean the game is overtly complex. Just different than other games.
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It was awesome.
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Nothing as long as you accurately hit them in the correct order. There shouldn’t be a problem then.