I’m not sure I follow. Are the current rules inconsistent? P1 would be DQ’d and P4 would get those points and a compensation ball at the end of the game.
I think he’s saying the proposed rule would be impossible to apply in this case.
16?!?! I can’t tell years anymore.
…and the scoresheet is under the machine so it makes it uncomfortable for anyone not playing the machine to check when a player is playing. Or when you’re bad at names and you’ve now lost track of the names of people who introduced themselves 20min ago. The “all players are responsible” is a better fit when starting the wrong number of players game than this situation.
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Resurrecting this for a (maybe) stupid question:
If P2 plays P1’s ball 1, is it a DQ or a do-over?
I guess this boils down to whether a game officially starts when P1 plunges their first ball (which didn’t happen yet), or when the correct number of players is being put in (which did happen)?
You plunge another person’s ball, it’s a DQ. Always.
If it’s the incorrect # of players, that game was void the moment the first ball was plunged.
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But is it their ball yet if the game hasn’t even started? How is the start of a game defined?
Start of game doesn’t exist until the correct number of players are on the game. Once the number of players is correct, the game has begun. After that, it a player plunges another player’s ball, DQ
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But not is cases like where spanish is picked when it should not be and an few other odd ball cases.
But just say its not as easy as Once the number of players is correct.
What about when there is an stuck ball? Something is not working right?
Interesting. What about this:
a) I’m walking up to a machine, I’m P2 in a 2P match, and there’s already a 2P game in there from before. P1 already has 100 points on the board, though. Am I allowed to plunge the balls in order to start fresh? (I’m assuming everybody would agree that yes.)
b) P1 puts in 2 players, a malfunctioning drop gives him 100 points. I’m P2, do I get DQ’d if I plunge the ball? (Same situation as a, but one of the actual players has pushed the start button)
c) I’m walking up to a machine, I’m P2 in a 2P match, and there’s already a 2P game in there from before, no points on the board. I’d like to plunge the balls and start fresh, because there’s a ball in the lock. Do I get DQ’d if I do so? What if I just put in a third player, can I now plunge off that previous game without getting DQ’d?
Just trying to figure out whether your definition of start of game makes sense for practical purposes. I don’t think having start of game defined as P1 plunges their first ball would run into any of this sort of ambiguities.
also can you tilt out to speed up an restart of an game? With out it counting as testing the tilt?
Or power cycle the game or hold start, sure. Assuming this was not another active match still in progress.
If player 2 plunged player 1s ball, yes. Not sure what the malfunctioning drops have to do with anything.
Yes. The game is not yours to play. Restart the game or power cycle it to get back to attract mode.
Not sure why a competitive group would ever decide to play a random game already in progress. But if your group decides to do that, not sure I would do anything if I was the TD and asked to rule after the game finished.
Ask the tournament director.
At my events, I don’t care what you do to test things between rounds. Just don’t abuse the games.
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Yes it is. You’re living and dying my edge cases again. Best not to do that.
If I’m understanding you correctly, this doesn’t seem consistent to me:
You’re saying: If I’m walking up to a game with the perfect number of players already put in, and 0 points on the board, that’s not my game to play, and I can plunge without penalty.
Your’e also saying: Once the number of players is correct, the game has begun.
So what is it? Are you saying that it has to be one of the players involved in the match that puts in the correct number of players in order for it to count?
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You can decide to take it over or not. Who cares. You weren’t responsible for the game’s initial state. Not sure why you’d ever take a game like that over, but as the TD in this hypothetical, I’m letting the group decide for themselves here.
This is technically true. But I recommend a member of the group starting the game, and some TDs may require it.
Ok, but the group isn’t deciding, it’s P2 walking up to the game and plunging the ball, because they want to start fresh. P1 says that was their ball, so you have to DQ them.
If it’s “technically true”, as you’re saying, that Once the number of players is correct, the game has begun, are you now DQing P2? Even though you said they don’t have to take over that game?
No I don’t. If this P1 came to me and asked for a ruling, and P2 explained to me that they were killing a game that some other randos started, I’m not DQing anyone. But if player 1 says, “no I definitely started this game” then it’s a whole other animal that I might have to text Josh about for the first time in my life. Haha
It‘a best that the group starts their own game and doesn’t take over a game already in progress to avoid this very strange situation that I’ve never seen and probably never will.
Thanks for your perspective. Seems to me like I’ll be better off just defining game start as P1 plunges their first ball for anything I’m TDing, so I’ll have easy out-of-turn decisions all around, and won’t have to play detective in a contentious ball 1 situation and figure out who it actually was that pushed the start button.
Since I don’t think there’s anything in the IFPAPA rules about what actually defines game start, I’m assuming that’s fine, without having to add any additional rules.
Anything goes at your events. Just be upfront on specific rules you might have that deviate from established rulesets or add to current ones.
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