As both a competitive player and an avid stream watcher, I want to represent an opinion I haven’t really seen represented here: I literally don’t know what the payouts are when I’m participating or watching. It’s not a purposeful thing; it’s just not interesting information to me and it doesn’t impact my enjoyment of or anxiety about the event. I understand that my opinion isn’t the norm, nor is it helpful for “growing the sport,” but seriously, conceptualizing a “$7500 game” of pinball actually makes it less interesting to me than just focusing on the inner strategic workings and details of the game played.
I say that the TD’s do what they feel is the best for their event. Some will say that option is better while others will say it makes things worse. Ultimately, I’m of the opinion it’s nobody’s business what I (or anyone whom wins a payout) does with their winnings. The tournament cuts the checks or hands the cash over in the fashion outlined in the tournament rules. After that point the tournament is over and it’s a personal (non pinball/PAPA/IFPA/etc…) matter.
Maybe that is why this thread just gets under my skin so much as it feels like a couple of people want to dictate what I can and can not do with my winnings/money.
That’s a shame and something I would argue they should work. So, what we are saying is it’s more important to not have someone feel awkward about being asked a very simple question than it is to allow every grown adult to choose what is more comfortable or best for them?
I think it’s safe to say we all agree with flynnibus and can move on??
I was simply responding to the point where 85vette claimed this doesn’t happen and hence moot… that is obviously not the case as people who have relayed their own stories here and anyone who has listened to random joes at events like pinburgh where there is a ton of ‘self policing’.
The solution IMO is empowering people and letting them know they are empowered. As is done with Pinburgh, they stress that engaging a TD is NOT a big deal and that you SHOULD do it… and always do it. They try as much as possible to get the message to players that you should NOT be self policing and if there is any doubt… get a TD.
This helps the ‘uncertain’ folks… through education and encouraging the message that it is NOT tadling or some other concern for getting a TD.
For those who feel trapped for their own emotional or personal attributes… that is not something for us to intervene in IMO… but it is the responsibility of the organizers to make sure the environment is supportive of individuals without fear of retribution.
I actually think you are more in the majority on this than you really think. If payouts get to the point where you can make a living on them then more will focus on the payouts but as you see from snailmans chart outside of papa and pinburg theirs not enough at risk to really drive behavior thus why some people would rather just split the pot and move on.
How these conversations generally go. “Hey, we’ve all been playing for 3 days straight and made it to the finals. Ya’ll interested in splitting the pot so we all can pay for our expenses in participating in this tournament?”
The only real solution I see to possibly make both sides happy would be (as someone mentioned above) is to have 1st more than 2nd-4th but have 2nd-4th differences be negligible.
edit not really what I was saying with it never happens. Just those examples aren’t something I consider peer pressure.
This is something I can agree with you on. But the stance in this thread feels less about educating those to make their own decision and more in line with trying to get a rule in place to prevent people from being able to do it. Educating - I’m all for. Dictating - I’m not open to.
Speaking of awkward - I don’t drink or do drugs. The talk about doing both at EVERY pinball event I go to makes me feel awkward. How about drinking and being drunk now. Maybe we should ban the usage of alcohol and talk about getting drunk so that I don’t feel awkward or peer pressured to drink. Of course I’m being sarcastic a bit here. Does it truly make me feel awkward, yes it does. Do I think we should ban it, absolutely not. It’s my own personal decision and it’s my job, as a grown adult, to remove myself from that situation vs forcing others to not talk about it.
well some people may have thoughts about that with the circuit final celebrities
Hey, I did my part by sending our laser guy your way when you mentioned them in that video interview
I would suggest we disregard spectator opinion until someone can show me that at least 5% of the spectators know what the payout structure is. I’m betting you couldn’t even find 5% of Pinburgh participants that could tell you what the payouts for 2nd 3rd and 4th are, unless they take the time to look it up.
Edit: this is what I get for not reading the entire thread before replying. @zvrabes said it better.
I agree that he’s made his points, although I disagree with his opinions. I’m more interested in the side stories this thread generates…
Don’t feel awkward, feel malevolent. The goal here is for YOU to pressure the drinkers into drinking as much as they want as fast as they can, before and during the tournament. Hell, open the beers for them. Let them enjoy their booze as you enjoy crushing their sloshed asses…
Note that this is much less effective against stoners…
I may be in the minority here, but I actually enjoy putting a dollar amount on the last and pivotal game in a match. Sometimes it ups the excitement and sometimes it’s comical. Case in point, a while back we were in finals in our league and one of the groups final game was Central Park, on 3 ball no less. It is a very random game that does take skill, but it’s more of a luck box. The difference in 1st and 2nd place prize money was $43. We were all laughing and excited knowing we were watching a $43 game of Central Park!
I have to say that I’m kinda boggled at the number of comments in this thread along the lines of “I don’t care about the money”, “WPPRs are more important than the money”, “it’s just a couple thousand bucks one way or the other, that’s chump change”, and so on. I’m much more accustomed to hearing comments from the pinball community like “well, I’d love to go to more tournaments, but by the time I drive there, get a hotel for a couple nights, pay for my entries and food, it’s a $500 weekend, that’s expensive!”
As a player and an avid spectator, If I knew the split was 60,30,5,5, but right before the final round they said the players agreed to change the split to 100,0,0,0, I would be amped for that!! I guarantee the players would be fired up too knowing it was all or nothing.
I might be the only person that feels this way though. Haha
Dem WPPR’s are a powerful drug
Yeah I was in a classics playoff with Zach from Tilt-Hammer and we didn’t know what the payouts were exactly but it was fun after we found out that we had played for like a $30-40 game of whatever EM that was
Funny cuz I split a top 4 pot because of the money. Was so happy to pocket $1600 I forgot about the WPPRs, still played to win but took 4th.
And I love me WPPRs!!!