You’re suggesting that’s it’s the TD’s choice. And you can’t really only count each player’s first 8 games because some of those games involved the player with only 8 games, so that would wupe out some of there games.
I wasn’t the TD and I didn’t even play in the tournament, but it counted as 40% on IFPA (10 TGP).
I don’t think it’s a legal decision to give players points because other players left the tournament
.
I have asked several times if in the future it is planned that the tournament director decides if eliminated players will be banned and not the software. The only important thing is, that all left players will have same amount of played games in the end.
I never received an answer to my question.
Since in my tournaments, which are contested often more than 30 rounds, both beginners and experienced players are present, I will have play in the future Swiss System instead of MM as it happens, that player leaves before End of tournament
This isn’t an issue in Flip Frenzy.
FF > MMP
Just as “legal” as taking away points legitimately earned by other players, and giving other players a 2nd chance to rewrite the history of their zeroes.
@Snailman
unfortunately, my English is not perfect.
Did I understand it correctly? If someone drops out early and misses 3 games, for example, then the 3 opponents who are still drawn against him get one point as a gift?
No problem! I share in your concern over how to handle the situation when someone drops early from MMP format.
I’ve applied the same type of logic that is standard practice in Herb (Unlimited Best Game) qualifying, where if a pin is operational for players to make entries (play games) for over half the time of qualifying, then the results from the pin stand. If the pin is not operational for 1/2 the time, or looks like it’s not fixable, then those entries and qualifying points on the Disabled Pin are removed from qualifying consideration, and the affected players get their spent entries back.
So if a player drops from MMP before 1/2 the duration of the tourney, then I would remove them from the tourney, and delete any match results of that player.
If a player drops from MMP after the 1/2-way point of the tourney, then I would keep their results.
In the instance I encountered, a player dropped with either 1 or 2 matches (of 12 total) remaining due to feeling ill. So I kept them in the tourney, and their 11th/12th match, those two opponents received a “bye” of sorts, with a free win. Very similar to how some players receive byes during a H2H Strikes format, whenever there is an odd number of players remaining. I think that this solution of artificially affecting two players’ results is a less severe effect than removing that player, and affecting 10-11 players’ results. And you also have the added benefit of not having to extend the duration of your MMP tourney.
In the rare cases where someone drops early from MMP, a small # of players are affected.
In the case of FF, every FF ever held (I’m guessing) has differing # of games played per player, affecting nearly every player.
So from a competitive fairness standpoint, MMP > FF.
If your local players prefer FF, then absolutely run FF, and enjoy!
I see min 4 scenarios where players quit before the tournament is over.
beginners are playing. They don’t really care about playing to the end. They are not used to play a tournament for 8 hours. At some point they don’t want to play anymore and quit. Of course, they don’t give this as a reason.
a lot of rounds are played, maybe even over 2 days. Let’s say 40 rounds are played. After 37 rounds a player realizes that he has no chance to reach the final and quits. Of course, they don’t give this as a reason.
real emergency. The player has to quit.
Example: our league evenings. Most join just for fun. We used to play swiss system. Always on Fridays until 11:30 PM. Many do not take the league so seriously and go home before end, because it is too late for them, We had tried it once with MM but have gone away from MM back to the Swiss system.
Whoa – I wouldn’t use MMP for an EIGHT-hour tournament. And definitely not for beginners for that long.
Again, I wouldn’t use MMP for a tournament of that duration. My MMP tourneys run for approx. 3 hours.
I would suggest using the concept I described above re: whether to delete the quitting player’s results or to have future opponents of the quitter gain an automatic win.
Most importantly: use the format that your community values the most and thinks is the most fun.
@Snailman
In Germany, we do mostly head-to-head Swiss sometimes over 2 days.
It works well if a beginner want to quit without any problem.
I wanted to replace with MM which works well as long nobody decides to quit before end.
As specially it is a real big problem if this happens short before end we went back to head to head swiss.
The only way to solve problem is that you give players manual new oponents by changing manualy the pairing. In the end all left players have same amount of games.
Ì hope in future the software will be able to do this.
I am even not sure if it is IFPA-Conform if some players get points as present for people who left the tournament. In the same time, others get a 0 because they lost against the player who left the tournament.
If players drop out shortly before the end of the tournament and games are deleted, this can become a problem, because then games for a few players have to be made up for.
Last weekend I spoke to a country director who I had asked if it is legal to give away ponts if I don’t delete a player who leaves the tournament. He said that taking points away from someone because another player leaves the tournament is not fair either. So you can also give the points to the remaining players as present.
So in the future, if a player leaves after playing 50% of the games, I will not delete him and the opponent will get 1 point if he has to play against him.
but it may be better to add an fake player and not give anyone free buys outside of maybe 1-2 if needed but not 3-10 free buys.
Does anyone know if the number of choices for player order have been decreased for Max Matchplay? I thought that I’d seen ‘Original seed’ as an option before, but it’s nowhere to be seen. Since I would like the higher ranked to play second ball, because that would speed things up, it would surely be a good idea to have this choice also for Max Matchplay.
I think it’s worth the slight addition in tourney time to have the more fair option of Balanced play order. As the highest IFPA rank player in most of the local tourneys I play in (and organize), I would not feel right about always getting to play as second/last player.
Further, varying the player order teaches your player community the pros/cons of playing first or second, versus having to generally play one or the other, based on their IFPA rank.
Last, alongside your fellow TD’s, use the Runaway Score rule appropriately to allow you to skip over the Runaway player’s 3rd ball, and if a modern Stern, set it to 4 ball (and then back again, after the game is over).
The “original seed” option is not present on Max Match Play tournaments because you can’t seed players in a Max Match Play tournament.
That aside: It’s a terrible player order option. If I could go back in time I would never have added it to the software. It’s really only good for tournaments where players are picking their own positions and you can use the original seed to signal who gets to pick first.
Any chance of adding an Advanced or Extended (whatever you want to call it) option in ladder format. Where as the first place on machine only advances.
Starts with 10 seeded players: #7, #8, #9, #10
#7 wins, #8, #9, #10 play on next machine, #8 Wins, #9, #10 play on next machine, #9 Wins, #10 is eliminated and the next round starts with #6, #7, #8, #9
Bonus if you can add an option for the final 2 to be played as a best of format but not needed as I am guessing that will be harder to program.
Thanks for all your hard work!!!
I do a lot of Max Match Play event as corporate events, would he super helpful if the players waiting showed on the big screen view. Many thanks for all your hard work!
Just ran our 1st max match play event. Just went in pretty blind. It worked out. Do you always have to manually generate new matches or is there a way to do that automatically?
You have to generate them yourselves. Depending on how many players you have I like to wait until I get at least 8 into the waiting area before initiating more games to be played.
OK awesome thanks! Yes I learned that when you generate too quickly it is not ideal. Me and my friend were playing on No Fear, finished game, generated too quickly and ended up playing No Fear again against same buddy but in reverse order!!